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SATURDAY, August & f 17^9.]
THE AUGUSTA CHRONICLE
.AND
GAZETTE of the STATE.
FREEDOM of the i? RES S, and TRIAL by JURY, to remain inviolate forever. Ct uaton cf Gtorgia •
AUGUSTA: Printed JOHN E. SMITH, Pk inter to, the State; Etfays, Articles of
Intelligence , Advertijements, &c. will be gratefully and every kind of Printing performed.
PROCEEDINGS of CONGRESS
I* the HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES of
the UNITED STATES.
(Continued from our Iff.)
Saturday , May 16 , 178 p.
MR. Tucker confefTed, that he was in
flue uced by the calling of the yeas
and nays; it would induce him to give his
vote and his reafonsfor the amendment w»th
still more freedom* He was glad they had
been called, and if the gentleman had not
called for them, he should have done it him
felf; bccaufe he did not confider himfelt at
liberty, but on special occasions, to give his
consent to a law without any limitation. He
hoped to fee it established in practice uevet to
perpetuate laws but under extraordinary cir-
Nothing, he thought, could
juftify fuchan aft but the neceflity, simplicity,
Jnd the immutability of the circuraftances
which related to it; circumstances whKh
would render a law equally nctcfTarj, aud
On all future wccUiojjs. If tbc House pafled
a perpetual aft but in fuefa a situation, it
Would injure itfelf and abridge the privileges
of the people. Every aft of this kind nar-
Towcd the power of this HoufC; and tranf
ferred it to the Executive, and a minority of
the Senate. If the Representatives went on
to pass perpetual laws, there would be no
power remaining in their hands; all would
be given up; the Senate would have it in
their power to retain the advantages that were
given them; they might refufe a fur render
of the power, or make use of it in commu
tation for some privileges.
A change of circumstances, he said, might
render a change of measures ncccflary ; re
volutions might happen in trade and in raa*
nufafture®, which might require eflential al
terations. Suppose these should take place
in two years, and a new House having as
sembled should And that this House had put
the power of alteration out of 'their hands,
would they not fay that it had betrayed the
rights of the people, by transferring to the
other branch of the government those powers
which the Constitution had veiled here ?
Mr. Syivejier was in favor of the amend
ment. He thought a few years experience
would afeertain the defefts of the law; and,
if the House had it then in their power, they
could make it as perfeft as the nature of
things would admit.'
Mr Ciymer suggested that- gentlemen were
mistaken as to the perpetuity of the bill. In
his opinion, it could not be considered so
unless there was an express declaration to that
effeft. H© thought the aft should be cotn
jnenfurate to the objeft, which was various
and unlimited. He was of opinion that pub
lic credit could only be perfeftly supported
by providing funds at all events fufficieut to
aofwer the demands of the creditort.
Mr. Sinnickjottt New-Jersey, said he had
ao idea of a perpetual law incapable of alte
ration. He wiflied, however, to fee a per
manent system eftabliflied. He thought that
revenue fyftem* should not be temporary, the
mere breath of an alterably, limited to two,
three, or flve yean, but should be fomathing
substantial ; that aft ought to stand until al*
tered by tha wifdoin of the Lfgiflature.
Mr, J3cudiHot rose to fay a fsw words to
juflif; ’he pail he should take in the diyiflun
G E OR Gl4.
of the House. He conceived tint the mao
uer in which this clause was introduced after
the bill was supposed to be perfected, and the
argument to which it had giveu rife, had
shewn that ihere was still further room for
difeuflion ; and that all the light had not been
thrown upon it which was necelfary. But lie
was confident, that, when the law was car
ried into execution, it would be found that
all the purposes, and all the eflential advan
tages intended to be accoinpkfhed by it,
would be defeated by this very clause.
Sir, said he, if in all our public proceed
ings we are to have the Parliament of Great-
Britain hung about our necks, and observa
tions from their praftice perpetually founded
in our ears, it would be worth wbi:e to exa
mine what that praftice is, and. to have it
clearly defined. I believe that, in the whole
body of their statutes, there cannot be found
a Angle revenue law with a limitation. I be
lieve that laws pafled fifty, sixty, and near
an hundred years ago, are now in etiflence.
Are we to rivet- the infirmities of the old
confiitution upon the present government ?
Are we never to (land ou a certain and folic)
foundation ? Has not public credit almost
abandoned us? Ought we not to confider
ourselves so deeply in debt, that a long pe
riod will be necessary to extricate outfelves ?
And is it not absolutely neceflary that we
eflablifh such a certain and permanent fund as
would make the public creditors easy ? If
we confider it of any importance that the
pulic creditors should have a certain and per
manent ftcurity ; if we with that the evi
dences of our debts should be of any value,
it is our duty to eflablifh a funding system
that will be commensurate with the objeft. I
ask whether the proposed clause will be con
fident with such a system ? I ask whether our
public debts are of so trifling a nature, that
we should leave them in so trifling a situation ?
As to the law being perpetual, he said he
should be as much opposed to that as any man $
but could a law be called perpetual which was
constantly in the power of the Legislature ?
It appeared to him to be trifling with langu
age. If the clause was annexed, the law
would then partake more of perpetuity than
if it were omitted. Suppcfe it was declared
that the aft should exist teri or fifteen years,
could it be altered or repealed before the ex
piration of that time, without a breach of
the public faith ?
He was sorry to fee an opinion prevailing of
difference of interest between the two Houses,
but he conceived that, if gentlemen meant
to support the superiority which they seemed
to claim over the Senate, the amendment
would have a tendency to defeat thi3 purpose.
If the House were defirom of holding the
power in their own hands, it could be more
effeftualiy done without the amendment than
with it. ,
An idea was held tip that the House were
giving the purse ftriuga out of their hands ~
He was furry to here :t—Had th»s Houle the
purse filings any more than the Senate ? It
was true that Body could not originate a mo
ney bill; hut it could amend it, it could »»••
gaiive lU . ~ ~ . .
He ellowed that if the only obji't of the
est wa* (JiffuppoM of government, he should
have no objection u> a limitation I bin when
it was confideied that the bill befm* «hf Houle
wav fh| fwwuduuou of • fuud.ng nud fmattsf
IVot. 111. No. CXLIX.J
system, the amendn>-j;it would inevitably de
feat it.' principal «vjeft—The language of
gentlemen, he said, seemed to be greatly al
tered —Now the system was a mere tempo
rary experiment. But gentlemen would re
member that, in a previous ftage'of the busi
ness, he himfelf brought forward a quertioa
whether it should be a temporary one or not,
which was decided in the negative. He
could fee no benefit rcfulting from making
mere experiments. Congress would have it
in their power to make alterations in the aft at
they pleated; toes mvc parts of it, to pro
vide substitutes, a:. k , supply deficiencies. A,
gentleman had observed, he said, that fo
reigners never would examine in detail the
afts of Congress—He though: differently
He believed th :y would examine lufficiently
to fee whether the government had laid fucli
a foundation and had provided such means as
were ueceiVar'v o create a confidenceaind give
them proper l urrty. would it be told him,
he a'ked, that, ’f lie Was 'ending money to
a man, he Wvali iWi roqu.re ’.nto the borrow
er’s circumstances, and the means he had pro
vided or would provide for the payment ?
People had seep enough of public faith and
public virtue, tor the future they would be
sure before they trusted.
He agreed that the JLegiflatuie ought not to
make a perpetual law, that is, one which
could never be repealed. This was the true
idea of a perpetual law. Bat gentlemen had
said that they wouid not confect to any per
manent unlimited law, then he undertook to
fay that there was an end of the government.
Did gentlemen mean that the law eftabliihing
the judiciary ought to be temporary and un
limited } Did they mean that ertabliihroent/_
to exist only for a certain term of years ? No,
it would be abfu-rd.
Mr. Madison then withdrew his motion,
in order to introduce another byway of ac
commodation, to this effeft : That the Im
port Aft ihould expire on the day of
unless continued by the aft which fliould ap
propriate the revenue arising therefrom.
Mr. Sherman was more in favor of this
motion thun the other, though he disapproved
of them both.
Mr. Aims opposed it 5 he did not think it*
varied the quertioa in reality.
Mr. Firxftmcm was in favor of the limita
tion on constitutional principles. He had no
objection that the law should continue in force
till the debts were paid ; it ought to !»eco/n
--mrnfuratc with its objeft; he could not join
with gentlemen who talked so much of the
imperfeft on of the fyrtem ; he- believed ic
wjS from defefts as could portibly be
expefted ; if it was not, he could fee none of
those difficulties in making alterations and
amendments which the gentlemen apprehend
ed. He hoped the appropriations would be
made before they left their feats, and that,
if the funds were net found fufficieut, otbec
funds would be provided.
Mr. HouJinot said he would acquiesce in
the motion lad male for the fake of accom
modation,
Mr. in moved to fit ike our the excepting
cUufe m Ihe motion, and was fetouded b f
Mr. Livermore.
This qucAioo wai pur, and the word* (truck
out.
Mr, A**"#*" then moved for the priel
oue u'isAtvuj wiecii v # a* negmved,