The central Georgian. (Sandersville, Ga.) 1847-1874, September 28, 1852, Image 2

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'^rwz We THE CENTRAL GEORGIAN THE CENTRAL GEORGIAN SAUt’JL B. CRAFTOU, COUNTY PRINTER. TERMS—For the paper in advance If not paid in advance, $1 50 $2. 00 Another Presidential Electoral Ticket. - Mr. Holsey, the editor of the Athens Banner, being dissatisfied with the action of the late Union Democratic Convention at Atlanta, has nominated himself and nine other gentlemen as Pierce and King Elec tors, to be voted for by those who may be dissatisfied with the Atlanta arrangement. The following is the ticket put forth in the Banner: Union Democratic Electoral Ticket. —Gen. W. B. Wofford, H. V. M. Miller, K E. Chisolm David Irwin, Allen Lawhon, Joseph J. Singleton, Hopkins Holsey, John J. Word, M. G. Slaughter Thomas W. Thomas. The editor introduces the ticket with the following characteristic remarks: The meeting at Atlanta having resulted in a failure to effect a re-union of the Dera ocratie party of Georgia upon the principle of “conciliation and compromise” announced by the Union executive committee who call ed that meeting, we cannot consent to adopt the policy pursued by the very small num ber of our Union brethren assembled there on the 18th inst., of not putting forth an electoral ticket to which all the friends of Pierce and King who revolt at the idea of surrendering to the secessionists, may rally at the ballot box. In accordance with this feeling we have put forth an electoral ticket at the head of our columns for which we ask the support of all those who cannot yield their rights to the bidding of an un authorized faction ridiculously claiming to be the “democratic party of Georgia. The history of this shallow cheat is too fresh in the recollection of our people to require rep etition. The naked truth is, that the dem ocratic party of Georgia is, at this time, in the most perfect state of disorganization, afld no section of the party has the rio-ht to dictate in the name of the party, its electo ral ticket more than any other. The Union democrats have exhausted the very dregs f of the cup of “conciliation and compromise," and have been met by a cold, and even in sulting refusal from the opposite wing of the party. They will not degrade themselves as men and as freemen by going a single step farther. They will not surrender °to the tyrant* of the party who usuip their very birthright in being entitled to a voice in choosing their own agents. There is no Presidential sere w that can make them sub mit to this kind of usurpation. The rio-ht is fundamental, and all others are worthless without it. They will not surrender it at the bidding of a faction, let the consequences be what. they.may. In. placing the above ticket before the people of Georgia, it is needless to say that it is merely recommendatory. It claims no party allegiance whatever. It appeals to the judgment and the sympathies of all men whe hate tyranny in what ever form it may present inself, and who at the same time desire to support Pierce and King con sistently irith that feeling. As the time.is short, it has been put forth tipon the spur of the moment, but not with out the suggestion and approval of friends who can bring to it a support that will de feat the usurpers in their detestable attempts at proscription under the screw of a Presi dential election. Thousands of Union dem ocrats and whigs are burning with indigna tion at the arrogance of the secession fac tion, and desire to vote for the National democratic nominees for President and Vice President in a manner congenial to their rights and feelings as freemen. This ticket will afford them the desired opportu nity. We are persuaded that the people of the fifth and sixth Congressional districts will give it their support in spite of the oppo sition or lukewarmness of some who are willing to surrender to the secession faction. It will also meet the approval of others in almost every county in Georgia. The single question to be put to every just and honorable member of the party, is whether we have asked what is right in in sisting upon a compromise ticket? If we have, and it was wrong in the other divis ion of the party to refuse to accede to this demand, should we submit to the wrong? Justice, equality, mutual concession among men are, we repeat, the only possible basis of party re-union, and it must be accorded to them, or they will nobly peril everythino- in the attempt to maintain it. SANDERSVILLE, GEORGIA. TtTESDAYSEPT.Ss, ;1S5*. St. JHary’s money In bills under $5 will be received in pay ment of demands due this office. Pay. Pay»! Cotton is beginning to come in we see, and.moneyis beginning to circulate, as we hear, we don’t know this to be so bv any contact we have had with the article, but wishing to have some better knowledge of what is going on in that line, we would re spectfully ask all who are in anywise in debted to this office, whether in money, kicks or harsh words (as the Attorney Gen’] is here) to come forward and settle. Mr. Johnson, or the Editor will be happy to receive and receipt for the former, and the Devil may receive either of the latter. The money indebtedness we must have, but in dulgence can be had upon the other sort to an almost indefinite period. Augusta—The Fueshct—The JLow. er Bridge Repaired. The damages sustained by the recent fresh et are fast disappearing. Portions of the Georgia and South Carolina Railroads were carried away, but in a few days both were so far repaired as to enable passenger and freight trains to reach their respective de pots. The upper bridge was also carried away, and a portion of the lower. The lat ter, we are gratified to state, has been so far repaired that drays and wagons will pass over it to-day, thus affording an uninterrup ted transportation of goods, from one road to the other. Up to this time, goods from the South Carolina Railroad for this city and the interior, were brought over in flats, averaging of late eighty dray loads per day. Our city authorities have not been idle. Every street in the city, and every avenue leading to it, we believe is now in travelling ordea. Health of the City.— The best evidence we have as regards the health of our city, is that our physicians (and we have a number of them) have but little to do. Several of them have informed us that they have never known the city more healthy at this season of the year than at present. As a further evidence, we would state that several per sons and families who left the city, thinking that the freshet would cause sickness, have returned and resumed their usual occupa tion.—Augusta Constitution.dist. Superior Court. The Superior Court for this county was opened on yesterday. The attendance of persons is rather thiner than usual, owing doubtless to the prevalence of sickness in the county. The Grand Jury however, was full, we know of no county where Ju rors are more prompt at their places, or undertake their duties with • more alacrity than this. The Judge in delivering his charge to the Jury, paid our countymen that compliment, and expressed his sincere pleasure at meeting with those so ready and willing to perform the duties assigned them by the law. We are glad to learn that the health of the Judge is good ; the Bar is not so full as usual, though it will probably be so before the Session closes. Among those present we notice the Hon. Charles J. Jenkins, though a regular attendant at this Bar, his friends will greet him with more than ordi nary pleasure, occupying as he does the high position of a candidate for the Vice Presidency on one of the tickets before the people. In abilities and trust-worthiness, he has no superiors on either ticket for that, orforthe first office in the Government. His name, his life, and his character, are for a time, public property property, which by consent of the rules of party warfare, may be traduced by his enemies, er eulogised by his friends, without, in the latter instance, offending his known distaste to such offer ings and which those who know him are ever willing to make ; we are no champion of his, however, and only in the ohaiacter of an unbiased and unprejudiced citizen, speak of him, and without any intention to disparage any other of the candidates of the other tickets, we honestly believe Mr. Jenk ins to be the ablest man of the State, and judged by his life and character, the best man in the Union. Many have occupied higher positions in the government than he, but few in the hearts of his friends and acquaintances. The preceding labors of Judge Starnes have been such as to bring the business of the Court within the compass of a week, unless the Criminal docket, which is becom ing some what cumbersome, should pro tract it, at any rate it is not probable that the Term will last longer ihan the present week. Washiugtou County Farming. On our Agricultural column will be found an article under the above head, in which the writer disapproves of the plan of Fall and Winter ploughing as practiced in this county. The writer is an intelligent gentleman and practical farmer, whose opinions are in every way worthy of atten tion. He is willing however to hear and weigh the reasons of all who are opposed to him, and for that purpose we cheerfully ex tend the use of that department of our pa per. We are willing, indeed solicitous at all times that our planting friends should appropriate that portion of the “Georgian” to the propagation and advancement of their peculiar views on the interesting sub ject of Agriculture. We shall be pleased to hear from “A Book Farmer,” again, on that, or any other branch of the science he may propose to discuss, one so capable as himself of writing on this subject should feel nnder some sort of obligation to corres pond with the public occasionally. Suicide.—Dr. Geo. K. Halloway of Al bany, Ga., committed suicide on the 11th inst., by taking a dose of morphine. Wheth er he took it for the purpose of destroying himself, or to prevent the recurrence of a chill with which he was threatened is not positively known. Dr. H. was well known in Warren, Laurens and Wilkinson coun ties. Casuality.—Dr. Thos. J. Jonhson of Jeffersonville, Twiggs county, a physician much esteemed in that community, was killed by being thrown from his horse on the 16 th in st. New Y ork.—Gov. Hunt has been nom inated by the Whig,convention of this State for re-election. Another Tugalo Ticket. The Athens Banner, writhing under the failure to reconstruct the Democratic ticket at Atlanta, has put out a simon-pure Tuga- loo. The names which compose his ticket, together with his announcement of the fact, will be seen in another column of this pa per. As “brother Heard,” the amusing vender of divers patent nostrums would say, this is rich, racy, spicy and juicy;.’’ The. last effort of the Banner is to save the Union somewhere in the Fifth and Sixth Congressional Districts : there is where the, danger lies now; and if those two the only remaining, (we are happy to say it,) Bleed ing wounds can be healed, the Union is saved and no mistake. We are glad tha 1, the industrious Col. has at last found out the exact spot, in our large State, where the fracture is likely to occur, in charity we could hope that this last effort would not prove as dead stock on his hands as his preceding ones, but it smacks so strongly of his imperturbable vanity and self-conceit that we dare not entertain the hope. The party which it forms may be a tithe larger than the names which compose the ticket, if it is, its friends may compose themselves in the happy belief, that it is not the “par ty of spoils,” but a fortiorari, a patriotic junto fighting for principle, liberty, equality and justice and against all sorts of tyrany. It has taken a large scope pf territory for its operations, but unluckily for its prospects, the good sense of the people is the only “tyrany” it has to battle against. We re cognise on this ticket the name of one of the gentlemen who would not receive or embrace the christain religion if it denied him the sweet privilege of hating the fire- eaters. If he still indulges in such amiable and christainl’ke feelings, we hope the emer gencies of his salvation will require no moderation in this particular, the love of such men could be spared, while their ha tred would be indispensable to good gov eminent and clear consciences. A New Press foe Baling Cotton.— The labile Tri^upe notices an invention of a new press or baling cotton. The only drawback upon it is that the bales are round, and round bales have been pretty generally proscribed. The Tribune says “By con necting it to the gin, tWcotton is made up at once into bales by the same power and at the same time. To appreciate the great degree of compactness to wbieh a bale may be pressed by this machine, one has only to take a small piece of cotton and to press it slightly while rolling it between the fin gers. The principle embraced in this ma. chine is precisely similar—-and by a contin uous layer of cotton revolving round itself under constant pressure, while the rollers are turning, the bale is formed of extreme compactness, requiring no after compress ing. It is thought that this mode of form ing the bale will supercede the necessity of roping.” Later from Mexico.—Matamoras dates to the 14th have been received at New Or leans. Great excitement exists on account of the Cardenas usurpation. The Nation al Guard has declared in favor of Prieta, and encamped on the American side of Rio Grande. Avalos had issued a proclama tion which seems to be received with favor at Cardenas and the principal cities. Tam aulipas is opposite Cardenas. Incendiary Attempt.—The Savannah Courier of Saturday says :—An attempt was made to fire the Alhambra Saloon on Thursday night last, by placing a large bundle of cotton between two boards, which were slightly sprung. The cotton was fired and nearly all consumed, but fortunately the draft was insufficient, and the boards too damp to get up a conflagration. There was but little damage done. Our citizens and the authorities cannot be too constant ly on the alert, as there are evidently in cendiaries still prowling about the city. Webster and Jenkins.—The Webster meeting was not so small an affair as was reported. There were from 2,500 to 3,000 present, and the nomination was received with great applause. Mr. J. L. Dimmick, in announcing as the candidate for Vice President the name of the Hon. Chas. J. Jenkins of Georgia, said that he was as great a mau as Mr. Webster only he was not so well knwn in Massachusetts. A Valuable Lover.—Mr. Charles Mc Gee, the contractor for building the new State Capitol of Texas died at Boston on the 3d inst. He was married oh his death-bed a few days before his decease He was a man of great wealth, and the purpose of his marriage was to secure a dower in his property to the lady who possessed his af fections. Frost.—There was a frost in Columbia county, New York on the 13th inst., There was also a white frost at several places in Massachusetts and Maine on the same day. It was hot enough at this place on Tues day and Wednesday last for midsummer. Reception of Gen. Scott.—Advices from Columbus Ohio states that the recep tion of Gen. Scott along the route he has taken has been very enthusiastic. He reached Portsmouth Ohio, on 23d inst. A German was killed on the day previous while firing a salute. Gen. Scott on hear ing the circumstance presented his widow with four hundred dollars. Defalcation.—A heavy defalcation has been discovered in a new banking institu tion called to the “The Suffolk Bank,” star ted in June last, at New York. W. Earl Arnold, the President pro tern, was arres ted on the 14th, charged with embezzling $17,000 of the funds. The evidence was pretty strong against him, and he was com mitted to await further action. The police are in pursuit of other parties implicated with him. The Slave Trade in Cuba.—A letter from Havana says—“That you may not be mistaken with regard to our new Captain General, I inform you of the fact that about 500 negroes, from Africa, have been landed at Ortigosa, in this island, and two ounces (34 dols.) per head were paid for winking at the business. Resigned.—The Hon. Thos. Cowin has resigned his office as Secritarv of the Treas ury. If many more resigne, the President will have a new cabinet before his adminis tration closes. . - ' - • The Florida Indians.^—The Washing ton Republic learns, but not officially* that preliminary arrangements have been enter ed into with Billy Bowlegs, by the Com missioner of Indian Aaffairs, for the remo val of the remnant of the Seminoles, now in Florida, to the west of the Mississippi river, and that the emigration will commence du ring the ptesent season. A Preambulating Ballot-Box. The Texan judges of elections have adopted a plan to save voters much inconvenience, in a country where the election district cov ers considerable ground. The ballot-boxes, accompanied by the judges and clerks, were recently taken up and down the river, and the votes of the sovereigns received wherev er they found them. The rationally have concluded among themselves if they could not take the liberty with you, bis traducers would have refused the offer i.r. 1 -1 ' 1-1 .1 n -vr... • of “beftominor t.hfi almnr.or nf AA- with who else could they? You see, sir, that? “evil communications” not only “cor rupt good manners,” as our old copies used to teach us, but sometimes place a man in the offer made, upon the slender chance of Seizure of an American Vessel. Schooner Caroline Knight, ofNewburyport Mass., valued at $6000 has been seized for an alleged violation of the fishery treaty. Will this abominable difficulty ever be settled? The Peruvian Guano and “our fishery difficulties” are grievous boores of which the country ought by this time to be heartly sick and tired. The Post Master at St. Louis has receiv ed a letter from Ireland, enquiring for an Irishman named Robert Baldwin who has recently fallen heir to nearly $100,000. Whjsre are you Bob ? If it is not a lot of old debts accumulated against some good natured.ancestor, you are lucky fellow. Congress at its last session authorised the payment of double wages to all officers and men who went out in the Advance and Rescue, m search of Sir John Franklin. 'rihteJs of Cleveland Ohio are on a strike for higher wages. The price of com- positers now is only twenty five cents per thousand eras. Scott and Graham.—A Texas Whig Editor stopped his press to announce the nomination of Scott and Graham, and then went on and said : “©en. Scott, the hero of several wars, and the conqueror of Mexico, is too well known to need comment. Mr. Graham is well known to the politi cal and literary world, more especially to the literary, he having for some years back been engaged in publishing Graham’s Mag azine, which as a literary work stands un equalled in America. With two such standard bearers, the Whigs know no defeat. Nine cheers for the ticket.” [for THH CENTRAL* GEORGIAN.] Letter Till. To the Hon. Charles J. Jenkins :— It is a maxim in moral phylosophy, that a good man can never suffer disgrace. But the position in which I find you placed by a portion of your political friends, would seem to indicate a disposition on their part to challenge the truth of it. In that respect, however, you may be like the just Athenian to whom some one observed on a certain occasion, “the people deride you,” to which he replied, “But I am not derided.’’— Whether your, reputation is sufficient to bear without injury, the load of honor now essayed to be heaped upon you, I wil[ not pretend to say—but t think it likely your friends, in placing you in voar present sit uation, consulted their own fancy more than the propriety of the act, and their own no tions, rather than the delicacy of your feel ings. How far your own conduct, however, may have influenced thereto attempt the manufacture of a Vice President out of you, is not easily ascertained; but they may have claimed, by analagous reasoning from your letter to the Editor of the Repub lican, that you were desirious the attempt should be made upon some one—and very a very awkward situation. Twill not say that it would be desirable to you now, to re call that letter. But charity persuades me to believe you wrote hastily, as weak men somestimes do—and that after all, you are moved by like passions as ourselves. You may not have considered sufficiently the anomalous character of some of your party friends—that the moon comes near the earth, and that men of your pretentions are in danger at such times—not so much from themselves as from being unable to tell what may not happen to them from the lunacy of others. Why, sir, who can give to every man thatasketh, a reason fof what is done ? When it is done, who can tell us who did it ? Who can say truly, what will be done next? In short, sir, who can tell what he is to come to, when he looks with feelings more of sorrow than anger, to your condition ?— When the proud steed shall know why man restrains; His fiery course, or drives him o’er the plains; ,v,-/ When the dull Ox, why now he breaks the clod, Is now a victim, and now Egypt’s god— Then shall men’s pride and dutness compre hend, ’ * His actions, passions, brings, use and end:— Why doing, suffering, check’d, impeU’d deed why This hour a slave, the next a deity.” And perhaps, when the ides of November have come, and some one, honest as well as wise, may be able^to explain to us, why it was you were unfit to be the Representa tive of Richmond county in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and fifty one, and the year thereafter, worthy to be Vice President of these United States ?— Why it was that certain wise and conscien tious men should get upon your Platform then, and flirt out their sharp designs, like porcupine quills, and push you off; and now haul you upon, and boast of it, as your handiwork ? Why strip you then, of well- merited honors, and turn you out naked and friendless, and now take you in and clothe you with their nauseous, ridiculous and fulsome adulations ? ‘•Why then a vietim, and now Faction’s god.” I believe I shall be constrained to admit that of all the men whom I have known* every thing considered, you have the most “clear and undisputed right,” to cry out, “save me from my friends." But, sir, whatever may have beeiggfhe mo tives of the gentlemen who placed you on a Presidential ticket, with “the greatest in tellect of the age,” I will not believe it was at your seeking. Yet, then, are some things in your letter, which, for your sake now, I would were not there. If Gen. Scott was chosen by the Whig National Convention, on account of his “availability,” as seems to be your opinion, there are some circum stances connected with your nomination, of an ulterior character, that give to it, in par ticular, a somewhat similar caste. I will not call it “political juggling,"—such ex pressions are used by gentlemen who are hanl pressed for reasons, for non-eoraply- ing with their obligations to principle and party. It could scarcely have been expect ed, (and ! doubt whether those gentlemen “Will it be pretended,” that any of of “becoming the almoner of fifty millions of dollars,” upon the same conditions? I think not. And certainly there are amonv them some, to whom I would regret to see their refusing it. But, sir, your friends have not given you the opportunity, officially, of refusing proffered honors—'“and there by hangs a tale /” They have refused, or perhaps will not permit you, the occasion, to express your profound acknowledgements, your grateful feelings, and your exalted sense of the high honor they would confer upon you, and all that sort of thing. Why not ? They have even refused you the beggarly permission of consenting to be their leader l “ Was that done like Cassius ?” Why have they thus departed from ancient customs, and committed so palpable a breach of the good old ways 1 Do they intend to make all things new ? It is to be regretted that they locked out from you such golden op portunities, wherein you could have shows your position in its true light—and they have saved their credit. “’Tis strange l ’Tis passing strange.” But, sir, I do not admit that Gen. Scott was chosen ou the score of availability, anv more that it is notorious all candidates are chosen. You are well aware that some men, highly deserving, can never be elected >,© office,— and men are not often canvassed for the purpose of being defeated. Candi dates for the Presidency, mast, from the very nature of circumstances, be chosen to - a certain extent, on the ground of availa bility. Mr. Clay was beaten, yet at the time, he was decidedly the mo t available candidate the Whig party could put for ward. Is Gen. Scott the less entitled to our support, because he is charged with a thing he cannot help—and whieh, in truth, with out it, he would not have been selected 1— His availability is of an affirmative charac ter decidedly. His “antecedents’" are less exceptional ble than any distinguished man iu the country. His talents, both civil and military, are of the highest order. Mr. Webster perhaps, may exceed him in ab struse constitutional learning—but I do not fear to assert that 1 betieve Gen. Scott to be, without a just exception, the most accom plished gentleman of the age ; and would in this, or any other country, where ability is appreciated, command the respect of a peo ple, and the honors of a government. Be sides, sir, it must be recollected that Gen* Scott has been a prominent citizen before the country for the Presidency, at least twelve years—and that his friends have re peatedly given way to the wishes and pre ferences of their party ; and in no instance, on his account, endeavored to distract or divide it, because of his being left out in the choice. Some consideration is due to their wishes and feelings from us, ou that account, if nothing else. No, sir, while the success of sound and wholesome principles are of the least importance to the welfare of the country, parties must be held in the main, in tact—and the plea of availability, will, therefore, - attach more or less, to all men who are run on strict party grounds.-— So also, will that stale, sickeLing, disgust ing, Contemptible, filthy, low, vile, dema gogue plea of Abolition and Free-soil in fluence, so long as our morbid sensitiveness on one question alone, so easily renders us the dupes of designing politicians. Sir, I honor you from my heart, that you hare not made that an objection to Gen. Scott. He must be ignorant indeed, who does not. know that their votes, and their influence have mingled with ours, iu all of our Pre sidential elections. And that it is necessary they should continue to do so, if we regard our own safety, the interests or the perpe tuity of the Union. • And, sir, while your position is a delicate one, whether regarded iu the light of a real, bonatide candidate, or as a supernumerary —a kind of advertisement board, whereon may lie watered sundry “Independent” .no tices of persons “to let,” to the highest bid* who pushed you off your platform, ever ^er, if early application H made to thought of it, in their present haste to do ol you honor !) that when you suggested the charge of “availability,” against that illus trious citizen, and against the judgment of your peers, it would so soon, by so sudden and so democratic-like a revolution of for tune’s wheel,, have been brought to bear up on your own- honorable self. “Curses, like chickens, will come home to roost.” And it is not unfrequeutly the case that our hard after the 1st day of November next—a very grave question intervenes, of how far such a del Ucctidn from duty to a National organization of party may extend, without endangering the safety and the well-being of principles you and your friends profess to hold sacred. In other words, how far can you presume to hold others responsible for pledges, which were made under mutual obligations, and for your* especial protection, while you are the first to disregard a prominent condition ot ... , , their fulfilment? 1 have charged Mr. Toombs sayings-return to rest upon our own heads wkh bad faitil in suggesting and encourag* As an “available,” you are-eertaioly no bet ter than Gen. Scott—and in a much less enviable position, for you occupy the place of him, against whom no fault was found. It does irot imply ability, worth or deserving It does not acknowledged man to be hon est, conscientious, truthful or politic. It gives to him preference only on the score of being in a condition to be turned, moulds ed, or worked to the best advantage for cer tain ends. It does not even vouch to the public that those ends are honorable,—it gives no assurance of sincerity on the part of those who make use of it ; or that ulti mate good is to be accomplished. But the actions of the present, and c regards yourself, foreshadows w&at ma expected in the future. But all that availability may imply, good, bad or indifferent, I am as far from laying to you, as I am to Gen. Scott; I do not wish to charge upon you now, what he might not have prevented, any more than you have done : though he was fairly, honora bly and unanimously chosen by his country men as a suitable candidate for the Presi dency, according to the well approved cus toms of the party; and has acknowledged the act, and accepted the nomination upon their conditions ” Honor demand for him ife ing the running of a third candidate; and I contend that the position in which you are placed by the followers of that sugges tion, wfipther with or without an express ion of your approval, is antagonistical to the integrity of the Whig party, and can not be persisted in without endangering its success. It aims a blow at peace and har mony, which cannot be easily reconciled with honor o£. consistency—and one, if fol lowed up, must produce a total and irrecon cilable hostility between old party friends.— I contend further, sir, that in uttering such opinions as are contained in Mr. Toomb’s speech, and your letter, and occupvingyour present position, you give to our northern brethren the very best possible excuse for * ad faith to us. v You set them an example, nd an unworthy one, which were they to allow, when in the full tide of success and and pow^f, would throw you upon that last of all resorts, “a disruption of the Union." Suppose, sir, that Gen. Scott is elected in spite of your defection, (and I do not en tertain a doubt but he will be,) and Mr. Toomb’s declarations shall govern Southern statesmen, the . language of your position will be this to the Administration :—“ Well gentlemen, you are elected, though decided* ly against our wishes nevertheless, expect you to stand i OUR PRINCIPLES*/ sist you by tour pledges, edonot ' ' or mmmssm