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respected source, to publish the subjoin ed article in reference to the anticipated question of the annexation of Texas to tire United States, it is solely liecause of the address which it bears to the people of a portion only of the United States, excluding the remaining portion, as tho' that remainder were not entitled to con sideration, or not likely to listen to any appeal in the premises, though the ques tion discussed is one in which the whole body of the people of the United States, are interested, and the geopraphical por tion thereof excluded from this appeal not less so than the rest of the Union." Here lie does not say that he hrs any reluc tance to publish the address; but if he has any, it entirely because it violates propriety, in not including all interested. This is 'bis sole objection to it. Now. we sincerely hope, that w hen ever the Intelligencer, or trie G.otv, or the Emancipator, or Col. Benton, again mount the hobby of-disunion , r they will begin their capricoles by tilling a lew notes of their trumpets with the names ot these first grand “conspirators’’ against the Union; and at the same time inform the country of the heroic and patriotic j manner in which they first met the in . and vanquished them. 'l'hey may then ( ride without the danger of being laughed : at, or unhorsed. Nkw Orleans, July 10. Important Document. The following interesting document is published by authority in the Mexican Diario del Gobierno of the Bth ultimo, from which paper we translate it. It is an appeal or protest, by Mexico, liointlie acts of the United States, to certain Euro pean powers, and was, no doubt, instiga ted by one or more of the Ministers to whom it is addressed. The appeal will not, therefore, in ail probability, be bar ren, especially as its propriety and proba ble success were first hinted to Mexico by tile letters of leading politicians in the United Slates, than which, united with the action of our Senate, nothing could bo belter calculated to prompt and en courage the scheme of a foreign combi naiioif against the cardinal principles of the Republic. Alas! that m a national, Republican, and American cause the people of the United States could not sink their pnrtizan contests and present a solid front to the world 1 But how differ ent is the fact. Instead of availing our selves promptly of the “golden moment —of the time and tide which wait lor no man -under the foolish pretext of avoid ing a rupture with Mexico, *c have in vited the world, bv a display of our weak ness and timidity, to espouse her quai rel, and left the question open for general interference, with abundant time op portunity fur every possible obstacle to be thrown iu our way. That the day uill come when the prompters and abettors ot this disastrous poUcy will repent tiieir no doubt. But this is a poor-consolation while the inestimable prize slips through our grasp, to be made a weapon in the hands of our foes. — Bulletin. Circular io their Excellencies the French, Spnanish,English, and 1 < us siu•/ Ministers. National Palace, ) MEXICO, May 31, 1811. ) It is a long time since the Government of the undersigned, Minister of Vorcign Affairs and Government of the Mexican Republic was convinced that the Govern ment of the United States of America would employ and put in execution all the means conducive to that end, to make themselves masters ot the department ol Texas. The question has been started and rtrged at different times; but from circumstances well known, without eh fecting the contemplated iuco: pout ion. The same circumstances, and the idea that a Government which so frequently announces that its principles Oi action are noble, generous, and lounded in jus tice, and its indisposition to appear to die world in a transaction the accomplish ment of which would brand it a usurper, induced Mexico to congratulate herself that at no time could be completed an act unparalleled in the history of civili zed nations, and which would belie lire protestations of friendship and benevo lence received from the United States, and which were responded to with ear nest demonstrations ol good iaith and loyalty. . . . , , But *his confidence, which was tiuly illusory, could not induce Mexico to neg lect the duty of repeating, on every prop er occasion, the right of the republic to the territory in question, and to urge on the United States to foment and encour age the robbery committed by the un grateful colonists whom Mexico had ad mitted into her border, and which kind ness thev rtpaid with such perfidy. It was for this reason that the provisional administration, in accordance with its duty, addressed the Government ol the United States, the notes which the under si med had the honor to remit to the re spectable diplomatic corps of friendly na tions protesting against every kind of as sistance which the Texans might receive from them, well knowing that such pro tection would tend to embarrass the po sition of Mexico towards that territory, and aid the United Stales so to consum mate their scheme of acquisition. For the same cause, I protested anew ami with all solemnity, as soon as 1 learned that the agitation of the subject of the an nexation of Texas to the American Uni on had been renewed, declaring that ll that act were ratified, it would be consid ered as a declarrtion of war between the two nations. , , The government of the undersigned could not do less than hope, that after a due reflection on the consequences of such a step, after appreciating the just rights of Mexico, mid the rcsi>ecl due to Principles the most sacred between en Aliened nations, the government of the ViJ Slate*, considering the position in which it would be placet! before the whole world, would abandon a project which must necessarily cause such evils to its own country, as well as to Mexico which with much constancy and sincer ity strove to be a faithful ally of hers. But the contrary has been the case. The President of the United States has at last signed a treaty with the intruded author ities of Texas for the annexation of that Mexican department to that Republic and ! the treaty has been transmitted to the 'Senate for their assent. That govern ment has consummated, on its part, the injustice which it contemplated for so long a time, and it now only lacks the as sent of tho Senate to be a law. Even vet. the government ot the un- j dersigned, flatters itself that the treaty can t become a law. It has faith in the wisdom, the sense and good judgment of, the members of that Congress, and in their regard for the sound principles j which ought to guide one nation in its conduct towards another, and trusts that : the United States will not be found wan ting in duty. But if such should not be the case, Mexico will act in accordance with what is demanded by the honor of the nation and its indisputable rights to its dearest interest. In advance ofany decision of the Sen ate of that Republic, the Charge des Aff aires ad interim of the same, addressed a note to the undersigned, informing him of the signing of the treaty, and the mo tives fur so doing. The undersigned has the honor to enclose a copy of that docu ment (in this circular) abstaining from any remarks on its contents, because it self so abundantly shows its absurdity, and calls attention to the foundation on which peace and the integrity of all na tions rest, if acknowledgment is given to the principle of acquisition, that each has a right to seize on what is convenient for its own seenrby s;:d prosperity. The undersigned, notwithstanding, could not refrain from making in his re ply to the said note, the observations nat urally called for on the occasion, and which your Excellencies will see i:i the copy enclosed, which is sent for your in fotm ition as well as that of your govern ment, that it may be well informed as to the state of an important question, which attracted and continues to attract more than usual attention, and shows that it was not for nought that the previous re monstrances were made to the United States, of' which the foreign diplomatic corps were informed, since they have re alized with scandal ( escandalo) and sur prise the fears that those States intended to de-poil the Mexican Government of an integral part of its territory. The supreme government of the Mex ican Republic trusts in the justice of its Cause and hopes for a complete triumph against a preceding the most unheard of and daring possible !o occur, especially in an age, in winch the spirit of usurpa tion nnd,c.onniiest is.so sqltynnlv coormm ucu. Ihe uudersigned m addressing this note to your Excellencies, with all the documents cited, has the honor to re new the assurance of his highest consid eration. (Signed) J. M. de BOCANEGRA. rrot ee Jluss of the democratic Association cl' Hancock. Whereas, we understand a report is in circulation, that the whig party of Han cock, has challenged the democracy to a discussion of the principles which divide them, which challenge that party has declined, it behooves us as a portion ol them, to silence this report, and stop the ready credence that has been given to it, by the simple avowal of its falsity. We rt member to have read some time since, in a column of the Southern Recorder, a resolution purporting to come from the Clay Club of Hancock, resolving “that tlie Clay Club of Hancock, will hold themselves ready to discuss, before the people, the Texas question or any other assumed by the whigs, or charged against them by our opponents.” Now we do not profess to be intimately acquainted with the strict rules and requirements of chivalry, but we never supposed that a bare resolution of on* man to hold him self in readiness to meet another, would be regarded as a challenge, and the fai lure to notice it as such, as a decline of that challenge. We have always under stood that the challenge was entitled to some sort of notice from the challenged, that there was reserved to the former, from the nature of his situation, a pecu liar privilege in regard to the manner in which, and the time when the contest is Jto be fought. Certain we are, that no | challenge ever lias lieen offered to us.— ; These doughty and puissant knights ! have in their impetuous valor, discarded | with disgust the shackling formalities of \ chivalry ; and in their haste for the en | joymeut of the triumph of a successful ; tournament, they have reduced that pre paration and notice which should precede such an occasion, to such a summary, as in our opinion barely comports with gen tility. We understand that there is to be a discussion of political doctrinesat Sparta on the 27th inst., which time, we are in vited to come out and to be held responsi ble before the people (such is the boister ous language of the leaders of whiggery in our little county,) if we do not. It is our purpose now to say, that we shall most certainly avail ourselves of this invitation, however uncourtoous the terms in which it come to us ; notwith standing as the challenged parti/, we would have preferred the fixing the day ourselves at a time as convenient to our selves as to the redoubtable chivaliers themselves. And we now avow that, had we considered as a challenge, the re solution of the Clay Club of Hancock, “toJiold themselves in readiness to dis cuss before the people, the Texas ques tion or any other assumed by the whigs, or charged upon them by our opponents,” that challenge wotdd readily have been accepted. R. I’. SASNKTT, Brest John De Witt. Sec’rv. ' Sp irtg July 13. 1811 IDU3IM DS3JY!? a M. JOILNsTUN, EDITOR. *• Xitt Uu o f Casar. hut the uelfare cf Rome.” MACON, WEDNESDAY, JULY 24, I SI4. FOR PRESIDENT, .inn s k. polk, Os Tennessee. FOR VICE PRESIDENT, GEORGE M. BilljLAS, Os Pennsylvan in. £3= 7 fie office of the “American Democrat” has been removed o the Second Story of the Building on Mul berry Street, formerly occupied by the Branch of the Bank of Darien. It is note easy of access, and well supplied with Job- Type of every description. — Bills, pamphlets, and all kinds of Job work will be done at the loicest prices on SHOR TNO TICE. A portion of the patronage of onr friends and the public is respectfully solicited. THE “DEMOCRAT” FOR THE CAMPAIGN. The “ Democrat” will be sent to sub scribers from Is/ of June until the mid dle of November next, for one dollar in advance. Postmasters are authorized to receive and forward subscriptions. T. S. Reynolds. The Convention at Tliomafcton. The utmost harmony and enthusiasm prevailed at the convention, and the spi rit and ardor evinced by the delegates and the large assemblage of the Democ racy from the adjoining counties in at tendance, augers well for the success of our principles. Sam’l M. Strong, Esq. of this county was called upon during the recess of the convention by the citi zens present, to which he responded in a speech ofgreateloqucnce (Stability, which was received with rounds of deafening applause. In the afternoon Mr. Strong and Col. Powers of this county, and Por ter Ingram, Esq. of Harris addressed the convention in speeches replete with pa triotic fervor, sound reasoning, and elo quence. The heartfelt response of the audience to these speeches is the best in dication that the true spirit is enkindled in itiu; Unomo of ctamoornoy of flip third district. Our flag is there, and the people will Lear it aloft in triumph in October and November, by’ large ma jority. Let every' one do his duty and success is certain. In another column will be found the proceedings of the con vention. Hr Polk anti the Revolutionary Pe’ sioners The Messenger of last week atlcmps to make party capital out of Mr. Polk’s vote on the Pension bill ol 1832. If the Mes senger will explain the nature and details of that bill to its readers, he is welcome to all the benefit he can derive from it.— The Messenger knows, or if he does not, he will find by reference to the history of the bill, that it was regarded by the en tire delegation from the southern, and south western states, as a part md parcel of Clay’s American system, and was ex pressly intended to absorb the surplus money which the extinguishment of the public debt would leave iti the treasury, and unless some scheme could be devised by which the surplus monies could be squandered, the tariff bill would have to be reduced to a revenue stand ard, and by multiplying sources of ex penditure, the tariff party then as now, were desirous of creating a necessity for high duties. It was upon the ground, that while the bill purported nominally to be for the benefit of the revolutionary soldiers, it was intended really to foster the manufacturing monopolies of the north—that Mr. Polk voted against it, with most of the southern and south-western members, including those of Georgia; among whom were Wilde, Gamble, and Foster, now high in the confidence ot the whig party. If Mr. Polks’ opposition to the bill can be regarded as an evidence of hostility to the soldiers of the revolution, how will the Messenger account for the opposition of his own political fiiendsto the same bill. We regret that we cannot pursue the subject further to-day, but are willing to probe the whole matter to the bottom, and then let it be seen who will come off with the best blood. Is the Messenger willing? «« Is tlie rod of British power forever to be suspended over our lieadf” This wus the indignant language of an American patriot, ere yet the canker of an unhallowed ambition bad swallow ed up every patriotic emotiou. It was the language of Henry Clay, in the days of his manly prime—when he stood side by side with Calhoun, Lowndes, Macon, and our own lamented statesmen, Craw ford and Forsyth, for his country, against forign interference, and their nlli'-s |at home. But, oh, how changed is his j language at this day. when a question [ of a precisely similar nature has present ed itself to the country. TheU. States was then asserting her right of territory over the country embraced within the Mississippi and Perdido. Spain con tested it, and there were thousands then, as now, found in the country who op posed it, and denounced President Madi son and his Cabinet for their efforts and zeal in acquiring that territory. The cry was rung then, as now, about the power of Great Britain; we were threatenedthen as now, by the opponents of the measure with all the disasters of a protracted war —a war, that would lead the combined powers of Europe to'our shores and des solate our country, burn down our towns and destroy our people. But, thanks to our countrymen, there were thousands then as well as now, who, believing in the justness of our cause, were inexora ble in their determination to maintain it in the face of all the allied powers of Europe and of the world. The spirit of our countrymen was then like it was in 7G ; and England with all her allies could not check it or make them full cowardly and submissively at the feet of British power. The following language of Mr. Clay, in all its essential particulars is the lan guage of the friends of annexation at this day : “ 1 have no hesitation in saying, that if a parent country will not or cannot maintain its authority in a colony adja cent to us, and there exists in a state of misrule and disorder, menacing our peace —and if, moreover, such a colony, by passing into the hands of any other power, would become dangerous to the integrity of the Union, we have a right upon the eternal principles of self-pre servation, tO LAY HOLD UPON IT. This principle alone, independent of any title, would warrant our occupation of West Florida. But it is not necessary to re sort to it, our title being in my judgment, incontestibly good. We are told of the vengeance of resuscitated Spain. If Spain, under any modification of her government, chose to make war upon us, lor the act under consideration, the na tion, 1 have no doubt, will be willing to embark in such a contest. But the gen tleman reminds us that Great Britain, the ally of Spain, may be obliged, by her connection with that country, to take part with her against us, and to consider this measure of the president as justify ing an appeal to arms. Sir, is the time never to arrive when we may manage our own affairs, without the fear of insul ting his Britanic majesty ? Is the rod of British power to be forever suspended over our heads?” But where stands Mr. Clay at this day. Does he stand forth as the able snd fearless champion of his country’s rights, or has he ingloriously leagued himself with inO common foe? The country will anticipate the answer, and need we not give it. His position is so plain that even reckless and bigot ed as the spirit of party is, his friends dare not deny theapplicability ot the lan guage above quoted, to the Texas ques tion at the present time. John Q. Adams & his defenders in the South. We once thought that this abandoned calumniator of the south —this malignant reviler of southern principles and south ern interests—this wholesale thirster after the blood ofsouthern white men, women and children, could not find one man who had the disposition or the hardihood to stand up before the country and apolo gise for, and defend this degenerate son of a worthy sire. But, it seems that in this, we are doomed to be mistaken.— John Quincy Adams finds his defenders in the whig party. Among the most con spicuous in this patriotic enterprise is Mr. Alexander 11. Stephens. The hero of Taliaferro, has drawn his trenchant blade, and does battle as a trusty knight iti the cause of this old crusader against the south. Mr. Stephens, said with much emphasis in his speech to the Clay Club, that Mr. Adams was a much abus ed man. And we are informed that he commenced his speech at Clinton, with a labored effort to prove that Adams was not an abolitionist, in opposition to the man’s thousand & one times repeated de clarations, and his whole course since ’24, when the south branded him and Henry. Clay with the indelible mark of the coalf tion. In order to show that we have not spoken in unnecessarily harsh terms ol this individual, we republish the follow ing candid and deliberate avowal of his opinions on this subject. We ask the careful attention of every man, whose life and those of his wife and children, are directly or indirectly, at stake upon this question : “ The house had a zealous speech on the rules from Mr. Del let of Alabama, in which he reviewed in succession all the speeches against the 21st rule, and final ly coming to Mr. Adam’s remarks in la vor of the abolition of slavery, conclud ing with the prayer, that in God’s good time it would come, and let it come. Mr. Delict asked Mr. Adams if lie un derstood him. “Mr. Adams nodded assent, and said, with great earnestness, Ist it cornel “ Mr. Delict—Yes, let it come. No matter what the consequences, let it come said the gentleman. Let it come, tho' women und children should be slain though blood should flow like water — though the Union should be destroyed —though the Government be broken up —no matter though five millions of the people of the south perish ! “ Mr. Adams, (in his scat,) —* Five hundred millions ! Yes, let it come !’ “ The remark of Mr. A. here excited considerable sensation in the house, and Mr. Del let proceeded. ‘I am, said he, one of the few who, in 1824 believed that it was better to have a civilian elec ted to the highest office in the gift of the people than a military chieftain. It was then 1 voted for the gentleman from Mas sachusetts ; I cannot ask my country to forgive me for this offence ; but I do ask pardon of my God for it.”—2ls/ Feb. last. V*t after this atrocious avowal, Mr. Adams, is invited by the whigs of Rich mond, Ya. to a public dinner—is elogut sedby southern whig papers, and defen ded by Messrs Botts and Stephens.— What are we hastening to ? We shall show by some extracts from the New Orleans picayune, what J. Q. Adams and his brother abolitionists in England and Massachusetts wish to lead us to. Men of the south look and reflect: “Verbally we learn that the Potomac, Vincennes and Someis were at Havana at the sailing of the T. Street. By the Courier of last evening, we learn that a private letter from Havana, addressed to a commercial house in this city, gives some startling particulars of the conspiracy among the negroes. By this it would seem that the British ex- Consul, the white faced but black heart ed and notorious Turnbull, had a hand in fomenting the recent conspiracy to murder all the whites, A mulatto nam ed Ceqni, who was brought before the court for being implicated in the plot, lias made the following dreadful disclosures: “ All the negroes and mulattoes are concerned in the desigu to raise an in surrection. If three days more had elapsed before your discovery of the plot, no means of escape would have been left to you white people, because at a fixed hour the whole Island would have been in a state of revolt. As I speak English, they imployed me as intcrpetcr.and more over, offered me ten thousand dollars and flic rank of colonel. Unfortunately for me, I entered into the plot, hut if you will pardon me, I will tell you every thing that has happened from beginning to end. I will disclose every thing that was to he done in every coffee-house, village and city. I will give you all the documents —1 will tell von what kind ot arms was to be used, and the names of all tho chiefs who were to command in the different parts of the Islands. We chose Mr. Turnbull, ex-Consul of England, at Havana, and now in Jamai ca, to be our king provisionally. That gentleman had at his disposal $270,000, to supply the conspirators with food, arms and ammunition. Our chief was the poet Placide, a mulatto, who possessed great influence among the colored peo ple as well as among many of the whites. Placidc resided at Matatizas. 1 will now teil '-oit the plan of the insurrection. The insurrection was to break out first at the sugar mills of 5)1 General, situa ted at Cuamutas ; second, at those ol La Boqne; third, at Artemiza; fourth, at Ganinge; fifth, at Solcdad; sixth, at Corral Fa Iso. The insurrection was to break out at all these places the same night. 'l’lie negroes at these points were to set fire to the houses, murder the whites, take possession of their arms, and march to Cardinas, where they were to find, on the banks of the San Guaruda, 600 mus kets and ammunition, landed—from an English brig, which was to come from New Providence; from Cardinas they were to march to the number of 3,000, upon Mntauzas, where Plucide was to wait for them. At Matanzas the insurrection was to proceed on the following plan: At first they intended to poison all the whites; but they afterwards determined, as a surer mode, that the cooks and other house servants should set fire to (lie dwel ling houses on a fixed day, and murder their masters. The capital and other cities were to follow our example. At Havana the signal was to be giv en by firing muskets. The general meeting was to be held at the country house of the Count de Penalves. Thus every town had enemies in its bosom.— We hoped to become masters of the Is land, and marry the white women, whom on this account, we were ordered not to kill—at least, those who were not old and ugly. Finally, the disclosure which I have .yet to make, will fill the whole world with horror.” Mr. Clay now and forever opposed to tlic annexation of Texas, We perceive that our opponents are in dustriously engaged in disseminating a mong the people, that Mr. Clay is only opposed to admitting Texas into the Union for the present. That at some proper time, he will be in its favor.— This is utterly false. If Mr. Clay is worthy of belief, he is now and ulicays trill be opposed to the annexation of Texas. In bis celebrated letter, after giving the history of the question to the present date, and alluding to the imaginary armistice, in the next paragraph, he dilates upon the dangers of a war with Mexico and England, particularly if the latter should preach a crusade against slavery. In the next paragraph he makes the celebrated declaration that, even if Mexico is willing it ought not to be admitted iutothe Union as long as it is opposed by a considerable and respectable portion of the confedera cy (this is conclusive) and also says, it is unconstitutional. In the next two para graphs he opposes the principle of one section of the Union acquiring new ter ritory to balance the political power of another, because it would proclaim to the world an insatiable and unquenchable thirst for foreign conquest, and denies that it would add to the strength of the slave-holding states. He then says, that the United States ought to prevent the colonization of Texas by any foreign power. In the succeeding paragraph he argues that it would he best for all the parties to let Canada and Texas remain as independent Republics on our bord ers, and in the last he reiterates his ob jections. Throughout the whole letter, he evinces the most determined opposi tion to the admission of Texas, and there is not a word or letter which tends to show that he is now or ever will be in favor of it. Let our whig friends of an nexation think of this. Mr. Clay's late tetter. Subjoined below will be found the la test exposition of the views of Mr. Clay oil the Tariff. As the soutli grows wea ker and is constantly losing her moral and political influence in the union, the friends of protection are every day grow ing bolder and casting off the mask with which they used to disguise themselves when advocating this odious principle.— Mr. Clay used to approach it cautiously and stealthily: now lie marches up to it boldly, and avows it unblushingly before the country. Will the Georgia Journal, and Recorder, or the Messenger or any other friend of his now ray that he has not abandoned the compromise ? Ashland, 29th June, 1544. Dear sir: I have received your favor, stating that our political opponents rep resent me as being a friend of protection at the north, and for free trade at the south; and you desire an expression of iny opinion under my own hand, for the purpose of correcting this misrepresenta tion. lam afraid that you will find the effort vain to correct misrepresentations of me. Those who choose to understand my opinions ean have no difficulty in clearly comprehending them. 1 have re peatedly expressed them as late as this spring, and several times in answer to letters from Pennsylvania. My opin ions, such as they are, have been recent ly quite as freely expressed at the south ns l ever uttered them at the north. I have every where maintained that in adjusting a tariff for revenue, discrim inations ought to be inude for protec tion ; THAT THE TARIFF OF 1842 HAS OPERATED MOST BENEFICIALLY, Olid that I AM UTTERLY OPPOSED TO ITS RE PEAL. These opinions were announced by me at public meetings in Alabama, Georgia, Charleston in South Carolina, North Carolina, and in Virginia. Your friend and obedient servant, 11. CLAY. Mr. Fred. J. Cope. The Persecution Waged by the Clay faction against Col. Chappell —its motives , <j-e. This was to be expected. The Clay leaders, tacticians, and hacks have cogent reasons for the envenomed bitterness with which they seek to hunt down Col. Chapped. The most prominent perhaps is, that by the persevering abuse of that gentleman, they expect to intimidate eth i ers from following the example of noble and manly independence, and generous patriotism lie has set before them. Thus far, the libellous attacks on him are mere manouvreing, but vexation at being re nounced and repudiated by a man of liis well known honor, integrity, professional ability and moral rectitude, and that too after he had become fully acquainted with the immeasurable selfishness and political corruption of Clay and his pnrti zans, is perhaps a cause still more opera tive. To render this plan of persecution and intimidation efficient, they have, it is said, formed a corps of Skunk rifles, the mem bers of which are to eject their filthy ef fluvia on every one, who having detect ed the demoralizing and destructive char acter of Clayism, has the courage to free bis neck from the base, servile collar, and dash from him the liberty-subverting, soul-degrading badge of Clay idolatry. Three or four individuals of that hono rable fraternity have, for some time past, been favoring the public with weekly ex hibitions of their proficiency. One of them who has abused the honored name of Putnam by applying it to himself, has been puthing his mephitic exhalations at Col. Chappell for inconsistency, ij*c- From the signature the Hon. gentleman has chosen, the reader will perceive that now, as ill the time of Esop,asses are fond of being disguised in the skin ofalion. Oi Putnam we know nothing but from liis newspaper effusions, and the speeches ru mor attributes to him. From these data, some ill-natured persons have remarked, “ That contrasted with the dead level oi hisdulncss, the bird of Minerva might be considered wittv, that a magpie might cn*