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VOL. I.
THE GEORGIA JOURNAL.
ft IILT ' EDGEV1I -»F'E, TUESDAY, APRIL 24, ism.
No. 26.
PUBLISHED BY SEATON GRANTLAND,
(PRINTER TO THE STATE,) ON JEF*
FERSOlA'STREET, OPPOSITE Till:
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CONGRESS.
REDUCTION OF THE ARMY
AND NAVY.
Mr. Randolph said he wished to
submit a motion to the House, which
was of a nature that would require
"perhaps, at least justify, some gene
ral observations. During his una
voidable absence from his duty in the
House the present session, Mr. R.
said it had been some consolation to
him to reflect that if he had been una
ble to participate in any of the mea
sures which the wisdom of the
and give a premium to have his cot
ton or tobacco placed in Liverpool
or London, or to have ah assorted
cargo of prohibited goods placed in
any street of Baltimore or Philadel
phia. Whether these habits will e
ver be checked, it belongs not to me
to predict—but they certainly will
never be checked by high duties o-
perating as a premium on smuggling.
But it may be said that the nation
is in that situation in which it is ne
cessary to act, to do something,
agree, sir, that it is—although I hold
it not to be the least of the qualifica
tions of a statesman to be apprised
when it is not necessary to act. A
proposition is now in substance—
and I wish to bring it in form—sub
mitted to the nation whether they
will encounter a system of addition
al taxation and loans, or whether
they will make a reduction in their
unprofitable establishments. I think,
if I have not forgotten, that the Se
cretary of the Treasury, in his annu
the necessity of the state, at least
those measures were not in any wise
retarded or impeded by any oposition
of his. True it is (said he) that at
the distance at which I was placed
from the seat of government, and
through the medium through which I
viewed its measures, it was impossi
ble for me to discern anything like a
svstem pursuing or about to be pursu
ed by the government of this nation.
But this, sir, I attributed to my own
want of information, not to the want
of decision or wisdom in the govern
ment. I flattered myself that when I
should have reached the scat of go
vernment, when I should be on the
spot that I should then at least be ena
bled to discern a degree of something
like a regular system of policy per-
vadingthe great councils ofthenation.
But, sir, using all the means accessi-
8°*
vernment might have devised to medal report, has stated, that by an ade
quate rcductiou in the army and na
vy the necessitous state of our finan
ces may be relieved. But, perhaps,
sir, it may be said, shall we, in the
present undecided state as respects
the belligerents of Europe, make any
movement which shall indicate a dis
position on our part to submit to
those belligerents ? Certainly not.
But, Mr. R. asked, was thtTe any
one who heard him who seriously
thought of war, or believed it a rela
tion in which we could be placed ?
He for one did not. War with
whom ? War with France ! Carri
ed on where ? By us here, and by
France in old France ? For she
had no possessien in our neighbor
hood. War with England i Car
ried on where ? In the hospitals at
New-Orleans ? Granting that our
situation with either of the bellige
rents w’as a hostile one, Mr. R. said
ble to me, during the time that I
have been in Washington, I havejhe for one would in that case still be
been unable to detect any thing like'ready to accede to his proposition-
design, any thing like concert, any for he saw no use in keeping up an
thing like a plan about to be pursu-'establishment, a costly set of tools,
ed bv this House in relation to ourwhich we could not if we knew how
national concerns—I ought perhapslto use.
to say*, until this moment. But I. It is possible, however, said Mr.
understand, sir, at length the budget R. that all this time I may be under
has been opened—that a system has
been brought forward for raising sup
plies bv loans and by additional tax
a mistake—that there is a system
that there is a plan, that there is a con'
cert—and indeed if the old maxim be
es. It is in relation to this svstemjtrue, ars est celare artem, ours must
that the motion which I am about to be one of the most refined systems—
make will stand. I had indeed sup-jit eludes not only sight but touch
posed, sir, that when the govemment;&would elude even a chemical ana-
of the United States should get into
operation at this session, the first act
would be, (if indeed we could not
build up) to pull down that which e-
very one seemed to acknowledge was
inefficient, ridiculous and hurtful—
1 allude to the celebrated non-inter
course law—and I certainly should
have felt it mv duty to submit a mo
tion on that subject as soon as I tool;
my seat, if I had not been informed
that a bill was in transitu between
the two Houses to effect that object.
Why indeed the nation should have
tolerated this acknowledged evil, I
have never been enabled to discover,
I had supposed that the first step
would have been to do nwav the
confessed evil, by way of preparati
on for some substantial good. In
this, however, I have been unfortu
nately mistaken. Whether the peo
ple of the United States were ever
to receive that flourishing commerce
which bad been so childishly spoiled,
Mr. R. said it was not for him to
undertake to determine. Commerce
Was a delicate, ticklish thing—and
when it had formed for itself new
channels, like the mighty water
course, it was difficult indeed to turn
it back into the old. But, if the com
merce of the United States was ever
to be regained, he would venture to
say that it was not to be brought
back by the means of additional du
ties. The embargo and non-inter
course—he had almost forgotten to
mention the non-importation ac
had changed the habits and feelings
and principles of the mercantile class
in this country. As foreseen and
predicted, a system of smuggling,
of illegal trade the most injurious to
the agricultural interest and destruc
tive to the revenue that could be
conceived, had been organized. A
m in lias nothing to do (said Mr.
othfcr who shall have the blame of it, to reduce them with honor...if it is th
was surpassed in disaster by the moi
tahty of the American army. And
yet, sir, for this shadow, this skeleton
—it is indeed a skeleton of an army,
the people of the United States are
to submit to loans & taxation. With
respect to the navy, I say Nothing of
that. Its exploits are alrcadj^egis-
tered in our Journals. And the fact
ot the frigate Philadelphia’ having
run ashore on the tail of the Horse
shoe, is the only one in our naval
annals for several years past.
With respect to war—we have,
thank God ! in the Atlantic, a fosse
wide and deep enough to keep off
my immediate danger to our territo
ry. The belligerents of Europe
know, as well as we feel, that war is
out of the question. No, sir——if* our
preparation was for battle, the state
physicans have mistaken the state of
die patient—we have been embargo
ed and non-intercoursed almost into a
consumption, and this is not the time
for battle. If indeed the state was a-
bout to undergo innoculation for the
small pox, this reduction would have
been according to the best medical
authorities.
Mr. R. said he would therefore
submit to the House, under these
views, the best he had been able to
take, two distinct propositions in a
single resolution, in order that the
House and the people of the United
States might determine whether they
would submit to encounter the Euro
pean system of loans and taxes, or
whether they would reduce establish
ments, which (to say the best of them
that could be said) were mere incum
brances. It was he thought, about
nine years ago since he had the honor
of making a similar motion in this
intention of gem^uen thus to syimj
themselves wit^B charge of folK
for originally in^Ksing them, I can
not coincide with them; but if it wa^
originally proper to raise this force,
there are no circumstances whicl
ought at present to induce Congress
to reduce it. But at the same time,
sir, I am far from saying that I do
not believe that both the army and na
vy may be reduced before the end of
the present session. It is true that
the deficit in the revenue may be sa
ved by a reduction of the army and
navy ; but that is no reason why it
should be done when every other cir
cumstance forbids it. There is a bill
before the House for the increase of
duties ; it is reported in blank, and
the ratio of addition will be fixed at
the pleasure of the House. It is re
ported on the principle which is fair
that those who incur a debt should
pay it. The deficit of revenue should
be supplied by those who incurred
the expence which causes it, I voted
for the army, and shall not be deter
red from voting money’ for an ob
ject which I believed necessary and
which I still believe wr.3 neces
sary at the time it was adopted. As
to the picscnt situation uf tlic army
of the U. States, I am not acquainted
with it, except from private letters.
No man more than myself deplores
the situation of that army ; and from
whatever cause it has proceeded,
whoever is to blame, whoever is re
sponsible for keeking the troops in a
swamp, and sacrificing one half of
them, 1 hope will be exposed to the
public. It may be proper to observe
that a bill passed th‘13 House yester
day for organising a force more con
genial to the feelings of freemen,
House, which was the precursor of which will perhaps much reduce the
the abolition of the internal tuxes. He necessity of keeping a military force
hoped the motion he was now about embodied.
to make would be the harbinger of
protection against the system intro
duced into the House yesterday—
that, at least, if it was not made the
means of taking off taxation, it might
prove an antidote agaist it. Mr. R.
then moved “ that the malitary and
naval establishments ought to be re
duced”—not that he was at all oppos
ed to a reduction in any other article
of expence. He believed that ma
nv other and important reductions,
Sir, I do not for my part know what
course will be pursued bv Congress
at the present session. The gentle
man from Virginia seems disposed to
repeal the non-intercourse—and I
consider it perfectly consistent in him
to vote against it because he did so,
when it was passed—it is pcfectly
consistent in him to say’ that it is in
efficient because he has said so before
—and that it is perfectly consistent
in him to reprobate every
lysis. I would wish to ask this House,
after all that has been said or that can
be said on the subject whether we
must not—we may make as many wry
faces as we please—go back to that
ground (if it be possible to regain it)
which we have so childishly and wan
tonly abandoned ? We must—we
may begin upon the system of loans
and taxation, but the people of the U.
S. will tell us to stop, and we must
obey’. Will the people of the U. S.
consent to keep up expensive milita
ry and naval establishments,of the ve
ry existence of which they are igno
rant until they are made acquainted
might be made in the expences of taken for four or five years past, bc-
the government. The spirit of re- cause he did at the time reprobate
form, he said, had long slept in this them. Our situation as to commerce,
House. He would go as far as any sir, does not proceed from our acts
man in retrenching expences, but hejbut from the injustice of the bellige-
confessed his object now was to take rents, who by’their decrees St orders
the bull by the horns. He consideredjat a single blow reduced our export
these two objects to be the gieat from one hundred and eight millions
drains and fcinks of the public trea- to less than seven. During the year
sure. I do not (said he) profess a
better acquaintance with the public
sentiment than others, but I believe,
if you svere to propound the question
to every’ man in the U. S. capable of
judging, that not merely’ nineteen
twentieths, bvit nine hundred S: nine
ty nine hundredths of them....alivay’s
excepting those who draw emolu
ments from these establishments, h
their immediate connexions, whether
with them by burthensome taxes and! ,nt ^‘ s U° use or out of it....thc good
a debt entailed on their posterity—.honest yeomanry of the U. States,
and lor what ? To what earthly end ?|who never saw these things, whose
If you cannot keep your army’ alive in, on ly p r °°f °f their existence is in the
time of peace, I ask in the name of money they call for, would say, in
common sense what will you do withL oc l* s nam e let us have none of them,
them in time of war ? Is there a man.If we are to I> ave war, we know that
who hears me who feels one atom ofi wc » the people of the United States,
additional security to his person or ant I no1 invalids from the hospi-
propertv from the army of the U. S. ? ; tals on the Mississippi, must fight
Has it ever been employed to protect:^ 1 ® battles.
the rights of person and property ? J'he ^° use a g ree( l to consider the
Has it ever been employed but in vio- mot ‘ 0 f n °* ^ r * Randolph; and the
lation of personal rights & property—question being stated on its passage
in the violation of the writ of habeas * n the following words;
corpus and as a new modem instru-| 44 Resolved, 1 hat the military and
ment of ejectment ? Sir, go through; nava l establishments ought to be re-
the country’, & put to every freehold- duced
er in the land this question—Are
you willing to pay one third more of.
Mr. Eppes presumed that the gen
tleman from Virginia would not ask
duty, and an hundred per cent on of the House to decide this question
that third, upon sugar, coffee and so at a moment’s warning. I have, said
forth, for the sake of the establishment
at New-Orleans ? We may say what
w’e phase, sir, but that expedition
which, until ours, surpassed in folly
every other expedition ever under
taken—the famous expedition of a
British army against Flushing, where
they had an army as w’ell as climate
to contend against—that expedition,
which even their own ministry dar*
Randolph) but to go into the market,aot defend, but quarrel amergst each
1809 our revenue was about ten mil
lions—during the year 1810 it will
probably not be more than eight. I
have as I before said, no objection to
meet the question, but the reduction
of the army will not do away the ne
cessity of additional revenue, because
our exports are so much reduced that
we cannot avoid this year increasing
the duties, or perhaps for some years
to come. One reason of the reduc
tion of revenue is that our manufac
tures have increased so much us to ex
clude many foreign articles—nay so
far have those manufactures progres
sed, that samples of the manufactures
have been sent to England to be imi
tated and sent to this country to ri
val our domestic manufactures.—
With this view of the decrease of our
imports, an additional duty of 5 per
cent, on goods paying duty ad valo
rem, would produce a million : and
raising the specific duties 33 1-3 per
cent, wou^d produce two millions,
m iking three millions, the supposed
amount of the deficit.
Mr. Randolph said he had no idea
of provoking the discussion which
had commenced. He was willing to
submit his proposition to the same
committee as had underconsideration
the gentleman’s proposition for laying
additional duties, and let gentlemen
take their choice. The great difficul
ty which he felt in speaking in this
Hall hud caused Mr. R. to omit one
remark, & that was—that if Congress
Jid mean to lay additional duties, it
would be necessary to keep them on
not only this year, but many years,
Mr. It. said he had not expected
from the gentleman who is at th
this House, such an opinion on tl e
subject of indirect taxation as was to
be gathered from his observations.
What would be the effect of laying
additional duties for one or two
years ? The effect would be that
the articles on which the duty was
laid would not be imported, because
they would I rave to compete in the
market with those articles already
imported free of additional duty and
moreover would have to contend a-
gainstthe well-grounded expectation
that in a short time the duty would
be taken oft*. So that instead of get
ting revenue you diminish it by lay
ing additional duties, because the
very articles which are to produce
revenue will cease to be imported.
There is no clearer question in
finance or even in arithmetic than
this.
His colleague had said, Mr. R.
observed, that, the revenue having
diminished, heavier duties must be
imposed on certain articles—why ?
Because, forsooth, the articles are
imported under a disadvantage, ow
ing to the increase of our domestic
manufactures. If so, in order to get
revenue higher duties were to be laid
on imported articles not able to con
tend in our market* under only the
present duties, this was altogether a
new plan to him—it must be of the
new school of finance—it was altogc*
ther incomprchenvble. With res*
aect to the principle that those who
incur debts ought to pay them, Mr.
R. said he agreed with his colleague
—and, although he was not one of
those who incurred the debt, he was
one of those that were willing to pay
it. They would unquestionably by
this system of additional duties des
troy what revenue was left from duties
on imports and tonnage. He said
he rather suspected his colleague had
fallen into a small mistake, and that
when he spoke of ad valorem duties
on goods imported, he ought to have
said on articles dutied—for under the
present regime they did not amount
to precisely the same thing—and
Mr. R. said, if we got back, which
lie did not kuow to be practicable, to
the old system, we should find an
increase of revenue, notwithstanding
the rivalry of our own manufactures.
One word more, said Mr. R. and
I have done, at least for to day. A-
mong the objects v.’hich induced me
to submit the motion now before
the House, or at least one which in
my mind ought to weigh in its favor,
is this : that this planting our soldi?
ers like so much rice in a swamp,
which my colleague wishes to see
brought to light, and i.i which wish I
concur, has had one effect—it gives
the coup de grace to the recruiting
service, which never was a very flou-
rishing branch of our home manu
facture of a standing army. If it be
true, as allcdgcd, that dead men tell ,
no talcs, it must be also true that they
can draw no rations. But I can de
monstrate, however true in common
sense, that it is not true in the Trea-
sury....for there never has been an
Instance of one dollar refunded in the
army or navy for persons not in place
although the estimate is always made
up on the supposition that the com
pliment of men is complete and full.
My colleague is mistaken, sir. I
have not reprobated every measure
for five years past. I had the honor
of proposing some measures....that of
arming the militia for instance, which
was adopted, with what grace I will
not say. I had the honor of propos
ing others which were subscquentlv
adopted when taken up by other geu-
tlemen. I might mention the con
tract bill, the alteration of the rules
and articles of war.... I might go fur
ther, but I arn not disposed further
to trouble the House or exhaust my*
he, no objection to refer the resoluti
on to a committee of the whole House
and to discuss it. If gentlemen on
this floor who voted in 1807 for an
increase of the army and naval csta
blishments, can find in the present
posture of the affairs of this country
a sufficient ground to reduce these
establishments, and at the present
moment, when perhaps the first gale
may bringnews which will enable us'hcad of the committee of finance in
sell.
Mr. Smilie said he was surprised
that the gentleman from Virginia
had expected an immediate decision
of his motion. He could not expect
that it should be immediately decided.
He did not regret that it had been
brought forward, and he did not say
what his opinion would be when they
came to decide on it ; but to do it at
present, he said, would be certainly
premature. The observations made
with respect to the finances, the state
of the army, and all that, he consider
'd out of the question at present,
rhe cv.bicct of the state of the army