Newspaper Page Text
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Itory, we linv.d ittcrensr '1 front 24 to 76 coiin- i ciaro that the convention, when called, shall | and the two hundred votes of tho formfr, Jbdl brovide for? It simply nsks^uuuieople
I ties. Now, he would ask, if the state hnd de I be restricted to the alteration or amendment! would be lost in the eight hundred of the Im- to say, by their vote, whether tin y will have a
' ' ’ — i. a —i particular portions of the constitutin', 11'r. 'Bryan, Bulloch, Liberty, McIntosh, | convention with spe itiid pun
GEORGIA LEGISLATURE
_ _ — rived any bent fit commensurate with tilts (treat
Debatr on (he Convention Bill—Concluded. expense. On r. miring tothestnt-
\VsDNL8D tY N ws heiiefieinl. ami whoh some laws were linseed
The Senate, agreealtly to
increa.«;»oi cxpi'iiKo. i f i r< mi ring
lumK, <]«> \v»* not lind that us imuiy wist
nilier *25. jhrnefn'i il, ri'id whoh some l:t\>s were p
r, took U|> 'wlieii the n pro.si r.', at ion wms thus limit*
lid lure now **;• ieted \ I).»«•> not Out* oueron
ht llUl died
*t«n i.ill fur the cidl ot h convention to mm*
the constitution, only h lams resort, llu- pendiiitro, tVo„, ^i-l*t tlioi.Mtid l 1 ^’; ^
- he «rovrrmuent. A odd i!n|| ns to one hundred mid hi.y-Uim
i tItous m.! ■! I'.lars, which v. ns the 1 xptmse en
ded on the stair t ast session, call loudly for
, Ir.-foim? I le was nwaro that it w.ih not ry
general power*, lie ,. c ” nc *'.‘'I*'‘.. ... * 1 <•!. ,„ge tint ,„-„d,i .1 telhr,nation, hut nap-
a a red to him that thin wits a matter ol wlm'li
Ithn ptihlic. were n >t fully apprised, lie, Mr
legislative de; arlnient of the govtrmuei
Mr. GAMBLE than m e mid o1)mtvc.I, :
that he was in favor oi a oouvi mtiiyn with
lie conceived that it v
important to remedy all the uviU that now
ist in the present constitution, which he he
i r» or not
ami to prohibit such convention from atomic U»ly»tn, W asm* and Tmtnall, like tho seven! and in tin- event, o* their deciding hi favor ot
l.ved were numerous, and required rem-ty. j (i k-liavTil.'thnt as much good might be |»r
lint if we bad a conveatiun >
Mr. G. believed ih
called at all, it should be one vest
powers to revise and remedy nil delects a:
present existing, and he conceived it impro
per they should conve
nndfont,liy n series of restrictions,
lieved nlso, that there w is as mneh virtue ia-
and as many
lie l»-
r j ( ],!duced at a much less expense,
1 wise and beneficial laws enacted by a curtail-
led re presentation, n< can now possibly be
, , , 1 I, ,., l effected bv this biirlbrnsome expense to the
mu! ho bound li m» ,• , . . ♦ 11 .
state, and this overgrown represent.it.no. lie
| was not willing to sir one county in the
tl i- people of' h'-'ed of it representative here. They
Georgia, ns in any other Male in the l >i
nnd he conceived they Imd r.s mn lithe |
erof self government, ns the people resident
in anv of our sister States, lie thought the 11
the
lelligcnce, and patriotism, ... ’ |s,i.m.I 1 each Inve their respective n pre
Itivns } but he was willing to see this branch
l lessened in number. Let its look at the cx-
I ample of our sister states. This stale is al
most the otilv state that had not senatorial
whs ns much wisdom, intelhgence, ami p it
liotism, now in the St.it --, ns charat-tensed
our ancestry, lie believed, that while in
creasing in wealth, extent Ol territory, and
population, they had not rctr-.gt nd. d in virtu,
nnd intelligence, hut had kept pace In tint
respect with the march o! improvement in
other cases. That some of the people were
dissatisfied with the pres.-at form ot gave n-
jnent, he could entertain no doubt ; tor this
would ever be the r ise under any system
government under heaven. Mr. (i said he j
never expected to see. the poind arrive w hen
dl would be satisfied with any syst -at what-
evet, instituted by man. It was the lot of
human nature to err in the I •rmalioii nnd
establishment of any system of government,
amid the changes and tlueiu.-uioiis, which
take place in society, and mm.l those revo
lutions of pal.lie opinion wl.i di so Ircqucully
occur
aiis of public opinion wln-di so Ire
ur. But, said Mr. («., lie would not taKi
as evidence of dissatisfaction on the part ol
the people, the alterations, and suggestion,
which have from time to time been utteinpt
ed , as remarki d by the genii: man from Han
cock. lie, Ml. G , conceived that the only
•lire indicatio i of dissatisfaction on the part
of the people, in relation to the form ol gov
ernment, is the public expression ol senti
ment after the question for the call ol a con
vention had been, submitted to them, reipur
iug their opinion upon the propriety ol it. -
It is then alone tve can correctly iiscertuin,
whether they are contented or discontented.
If the efforts which have been made to a-
incnd the constitution, were to !..- r -ceiv. il
as indications of discontent, the opinion ol
any one Senator out of 70, who udvoealed
these amendments, would be received as tes
timony. That some portion of the commu
nity will lie dissatisfied with any system ol
government, however perfect hi its structure,
lie entertained no doubt. This seems to lie
u principle implanted in the constitution ol
human nature, th it snmn difference of opinion
will prevail upon every measure, or respect
ing the merits of any system of human insli
tution. It is the wisdom of the supreme in
telligence, for purnoses mysterious to mail,
that this should lie tlm case, ami then-lore,
it is only whim this question is submitted to
the people, in order to obtain an expression
of public sentiment, that we can uncertain,
with correctness, the views of the people.—
If dissatisfaction at present prevails let us
ascertain th s fact, by the only correct mode
which wiidom tnav dictate : by I lie expres
sion of public opinion and feeling upon the
Kiihject, on some general election, o' some
public dav, set apart for the especial purpose,
lie, Mr. li., believed, that tho constitution
does require revision and mnewlinent; and
it is liiH impression also, that, that p irt of
the constitution, which it is the object of this
bill to revise, is not the most defective part.
He believed that there are other features in
the constitution which need revision and al
teration, inure defective than these contem
plated to be altered by the provisions of the
bill before the committee, lie, Mr. I!., does
not wisli to unsettle those principles winch
had been so lung settled, nnd sanctioned by
time ami experience. le did not wisli to set
afloat principles, in the correct operation nl'
which the dearest tights and privileges of
our citi/.rus were involved ; but lie conceived
them were evils nnd defects in llie pren nt
constitution, that call loudly for revision and
correction ; anil lie, Mr. (J. would be willing
for one to send back once more the sovereign
power to the people, from whom it emanat
ed. lie was desirous.tlmt the people slmiil j
apeak through the organ of their d -legates,
their real sentiment upon I hi - subject, and
say, whether those d, fects m the constitution,
if considered by them as defects, required
remedy or not, or that called for revision.
There was n part of the constitution winch
he believed should he altered: that in n 11
tom to tho judiciary department; ami though
lie conceived that, hi reference to the Leg *-
lative department, the reduction of the re
presentation called loudly for corr 'etion;
yet compared with the defect* in relat-o i to
the judiciary department, th 0 evil was of a
minor consideration, ami, th a’, if left to him
self to say, lie would assert, culled most loud
ly for revision.
On looking, said Mr. *■., into tho history
of our government, we tiuJ tlmt when the
constitution was lir-t adopted, when there
portions This i i lj w.-epmg sisters, would be converted into a
tiou to a consideration single senatorial constellation ; not liki them,
he translated to lie.tivcn, but tube 1 I-
grovelling upon the earth, contemned and
letpised tor their imbecility; while Camden,
h some improvement in Geography, might
he brought in cmiia -t with the gulden legi
ons of Unban and of i I .i t n - r - li. i ■ n—lie- dis
trict, including Tattnall, now represented .
the -en.ilc by ten Senators out of seventy-
six, would then have hut two and a fraction
out of forty-five. Cun I; r Senators then
reasonably he asked to consent to a in a -urt
which in its remotest operation, might tend
to produce this result. Could, or would ait)
of them consent? If such were to lie found,
districts, lie would wish, for one,
more equal ty in the representation ; but per
fect equality is tint to he expected. He wish
ed In guard tig linst this gross inequality,
which at present prevailed, lie was willing
to see the representation in both branches h
sened. He considered it la St for each county
|tn have *>nc representative, nor any more than
two. Upon that basis lie would wish to
,f! the representation fixed. II.- believed that it
1 was the general wish of the members of this
mniittee, that greater equality, than < Xist
at present, should prevail in tin representa
tion, nnd that tins brancji should he lessened
if a h isis can he fixed upon so as not to de
prive tbs counties of*their rights. He, hllli-
self. - v: i s the representative of a small county
and he hud no don!.*, if the counties wen
formed into sen -1 tori 11 districts, that his coitn-
iv would lose the appointment of n senator
but still, he had no doubt, if amalgamate!
with some other county, that both or all
might lie jils'ly represented, and if it was Ills
wish of the people th t this should he the
cusp, lie would verv willingly acqnir
that wish. Me would have the good of the
whole at heart, for lie hud tin doubt but what
there was salii-nc it virtue, intelligence, mid
patriotism, in the community, to govern
them in tli-ir proceedings, lie presume,
any one would willingly too, it elected
represent both counties when thus niual
gamated. He, Mr. (iambic, conceived tlmt
it should be the desire of nil to produce
-in equality in the representation, and il il
cannot he entirely effected, by tin amendment
made by tho people, ill convention, th
should try and come ns near this equality as
possible.’ But he conceived, ns he hud h
fore observed, that this was not the only evil
m the constitution that required remedy
That part in relation to the judicial depart
iiient, lie deemed most defective. The pro
per distribution of the judicial powers was a
in liter that needed revision, not only in re
lation to the i lection of judges of the superior
courts, but ulso the establishment of a court
of errors and appeals, lie deemed this a
highly import-ini subject nr consideration, in
revising nnd anv'iuling the constitution. Mr.
(!. said lie deemed it necessary that a supreme
court, for the correction of errors, mid the
hearing of appeals, should he instituted, ill
order that a uniformity in the practice and
decisions of the courts, should he effected,
that those contradictory decisions, or con
struction of the common law may be settled.
It must lie evident to every mail of expet ictice,
that some m>- isurc should be adopted upon
this point. If wo can judge from the present
ments of the grand juries of different enmi
ties, men who arc selected for their wisdom,
discretion, nnd ability, to exercise inquis
itorial powers, we must allow that some mea
sure is necessary to he devised, that may re
in dy those defects in our judiciary depart
ment Krum their presentments wo discover
that public opinion is in favor of a court of
errors and appeals. There is scarcely a
grand jury in that part of tin- state where lie,
Mr. <•., lias h. ea in -.pi.tinted, Imt what have
requested, in their pr. s.mtments, aa altera
tion in tie judiciary ; but so fur have their
wishes disreg ir led, because it could
not be eili-eled lint hv iHi»aheraiion in the
constitution. This tin asnro has also been
frequently recommended in the messages of
th ; Governing, who huie presided over us.
Perhaps, also, said Mr. G , therenm other al
terations required hi the constitution, which
have i ot been particularly spec lied. Mr. G.
eone. ueil tli:ii ,10 shoal I follow the grand
and p itrioiie state of Virginia in th-s respect,
and submit lllc-q.li stion tollle people, w lie! her
they are in favor of a com tuition nr not; and
let the people then speak by their immediate
representatives, lie had thrown out these
1 observation in n desultory manner, said Mr.
G , for lie eon -civil it Ins duly to expn ss his
view s upon the.suhject. 4 motion had been
made, said he, with a view to prevent nil
Hiv.-'tig Ilimi ol* lliu subject, to prevent dis
nr cancelling other
would limit the conve
only of th. 3d, fi|i and 7ih sections of ih-
first article of the constitution nnd decluie-
thut it shall be a ftimlanientnl article hi tin
formation of amendment of tin- constitutin'.
1 that each county of llie Stale now III ex-
1 isteaee, or tlmt mav hereafter be create I,
1 shall, Im entitled to lie repr- Rented in tie
‘ Legislature by at least one reprose,it,lliu- to
‘the (louse of UepreseiHutives.” Mr. II
laid that this login! iture w is a mere creator,
if the constitution, not only owing its exia
o to it, hut de.riviug all its powers from
it possesses not the sov* reign power;
sovereign pn vrr still remains and mint
always remain in the hands of the people.—
Mr. II. said, lie did not wish to lie inisillah-r-
tood, that lie did not mean to insist, that
this Legislature, like the Congress of ill -
Jolted States, has no powers hut su li as an
expressly granted hv the coostitunoa, for In-
lid not think that it was so lim ted, hut he da!
mean to say, that as th" en:-s itation lias pre
bed the mode in wli'-eh the Legislature
may amend or alter the r oastitutirm, tit it
mount alter or amend it in anv other mode.
There are only too wavs in whi -h the ci usti-
tiltinn run he altered or ninend'.d ; the one
by the Legislature lit the manner designated
III the constitution, the other hv the poople ill
eo iveo'ioo—ill the one ease, the power i-
Iiiii ted to the prescribed mo h-s ; in the other
it is the exercise of sovereign will,and wiili-
out limitation. If the Leg.si iture had n
right to prescribe to the convention, it would
result in this anomaly, tlmt a limited power
could control one that was ntdimit.-d. The
Legislature met to consult upon th - interests
of the people, may, if it deem proper, point
out to that people the supposed defects ot
the constitution and nnv siibiml it to the de-
tsion of the people, whether tlicv will go in
to convention far their amendment, nnd mav
also suggest the mode in which the members
he elected, and the numbers and plain
of meeting, and tins would properly be dim.
by report and resolutions—th;. same pnw. i
may also lie exercised hv grand juries ; hut
the Legislature has no right hv positive
HCtmi-nt to limit the powers of such com
tio , or to declare wlmt the people in iv or
may not do when met in the convention —
No such power is, or was ever intended to hi
given to the Legislature by the framers ofthi
constitution—they considered th 0 if the in
strument should require amendment in om
or more of its provisions, tlmt the power to
do so might he safely confided in the le gis
lature, under the restrictions presetihed, nnd
therefore, gave sm-li power, no doubt with
the view to prevent the ueci-s.tv of frequent
conventions. But, tin* const tution is wind
Iv silent on the subject of conventions, be
cause the framers knew tlmt whenever it be
came nppres-ive in its operation on the great
mass ol* the people, the poople could enforce
the amendment by the Legislature, or f:iiIii• ■:
to do so, would, in tile exercise of their anv •
reign power, go into convention, in which no
constitutional provision whatever could con
trol the full exercise of the r will. The
result is, that the Legislature may suggest
and recommend, but tln-y cannot enact; th. v
may express a wish, hut cannot declare a
will. 'This loll is as positive mol peremptory
in its terms as any other hill which lias .-v
passed this House. If vou wish a convention,
it says to the people, you must have it \v.
the restrictions which we choose to diet, h
In passing the hill the legislature will exercise
a power not gra ted to it hy the people in
framing the constitution.
But, admit said Mr. If., that this is a con
stitutional act, so far as il seeks to nscertili
the w ill of the people as to the calling a con
vention, nnd as to its e.mhlingtliem to give ,m
expression to that w ill ; does mty one here
seriously believe that tint convention when
called, would he confined wiilim the limits
prescribed by this ac: I Certainly not if the
the convention should choose to exceed tin m,
because there would he no superior power in
the State, to enforce these limitations, except
the will of the people. If the convention
should idLi|it a new constitution, at the very
moment it mine into existence, the old would
cense to exist, nnd the legisl iture, owing its
liirllt to the old constitution, i:i I dependant
upon it for life, would cense to exist at tjn
same instant—there would he no remedy bui
a call of another convention, if the new con
stitution was not acceptable to the peopl.
who would in such case appoint other deli
gates to correct the e\i!. In n convention
is concentrated the will of the people; and
who is there to stay that will 1 Who to say,
thus far slmlt thou go and no farther.
But, sir, said Mr. II., admit that the con
vention when met, would confine is. If with
in the limits prcscrilnd to it by this hill; still
there would be very strong inducements to
hint to vote ngihist its passage, lie Imd the
honor to represent here, and was sent here
in part, to protect the interest of n section of
1 i the State, pay mg a I trg. portion of the taxes
’ f -I. . O. 4 . I...S . 1 .
11, provides for the eh-e.tion of d.-i.-gates and
tile sitting ol the'cnnve linn. True, sir, it
proposes to restrain the co .vention to certain
defined objects ; but the. election of dj -
gates, nail tile sitting of the eniivelitnHV, ilia
depeit l int upon a cootiogeiicv, and 111 it is,
the expression of the voie of lie; people, by
a preliminary vote in favor of a co-.ve itioil.
If the people call not a cinmmilani by tin ir ents, il
v.ee, tho bdl is a dead letter i ea in t see,-) which
st, whsscin the lull is inico.istdiitioiinl.—
Again it is said hv gentlemen, that the legis
lature hy a law, can not limit the operation
of a convention, that the convention, if cal
led, will he a Ingli and uncontrolled hod' .
and therefor.-, th v will not vote for tin- hi!!.
state of Georgia, a minority of the people
may &i netaallv do govern the majority;—In
tile sen-tte ot the si He il. Georgia, th minori
ty may and nciaully do control ilie will of two
thirds The constitution of the state may
III under the present state of things, altered,
amend- J, nnd d.-s'roy.'d, by one b rd -of the
people represented upon this tloor, against
the wdl no r hi the teeth of the renin ihog two
thirds. The Seoul >r from Ch itha.u. \vho,-o
county'p iv a tax of more tlm . ■s,tllltl dollars,
has no nmre pov.no hen , nor liuve hi? cot siiiu-
;h t'u riqir. m nlaiive from the county
pays only $ 59. Th couety of .Insper
lias n representative population of at least
1 1,000; & the county of Jnspoj bus i o limrc
cortstitutlimn! power ill the Government, than
tile county which has a popnlatio i of 500.—
I he enmity ot Margin lias a populat.im oi*
10.000, ami pays £-.11011 nHo ihe treasury '
she. - r, has a Senator, and so h is the county
**' dt lias a population of GOi), and pays
he would not lie one of them. Mo was sent! I will not argue this question ; 1 will only s.
here not only to legislate for the State, but i tii.it mv present imor. is, tli it the I
to protect the interests of his constituent.-, j gisl.itnrc can not by an act of th.-irs, limit j into the Treasury. I* then population
and lie hoped hi. should never want firmness the powers of the convention. If it r hi as I and tax ition he anv criterion fir repri s ■ ita
tion ; these facts show most coticlusivt-lv,
111 H
Ins duty whatever might be the effect to objects, tt certainly can not cofitr il tin
upon Ihiiistdt. • I discretion ot the convention, i t any tiling
But, Mr. II. said, he would not collfi e j relative to those objects. But it is iiumate
limself to the probable effect of tins bill, op- ti-ri il whether this bill will be a legal cheek
the eastern distuct; be would tddress j u pon the efinvention or n
I to the Senators of the small counties, i tain, if the bill passes, a
how unequal and n just is the represe tattoo
m the Semite. When I say, that n presen
tation should b aee.ording to population and
>1. ( hie thin:', is eer- - taxation, I do not mean to
I de
■ It.
and lie would ask it* they had considered its
per atinn upon lie or counties. Ill tho rnn-
entio'i the number of members, IIS pr. siu di
ll by tin: bill, will he the same as those of
the present Senate nnd Mouse of Kepreseu-
tnt.ves combi iled : of these, t wentv-lwn coun
ties will he represented hy ninety three mem- transcend the authoiity given them. M,.
b rs, mid fifty-four counties hy one hundred in iIn- country, believe in th right ol'i i-cruc-
md twenty-three, lie believed Im was cm-- tiou. There is no re snnnble doubt, bat the
reet ill the cnh'idnlinu—the small counties (I. legates to the enliven ion, would conlt o-
exceeded in number, tho I irge, by thirty two, themselves, in their dt lih.-r itio is, to the oh
while tile ibfferenco in the number of llieir j jeet* and purposes for wlfi.-h ilmv are < leo.t-
R.-preseiitutives over tint of the large conn- oil. \t all event-, sir, I -li nd-l he willing to
ected under its provisions, the i-.ireiimst m-
ees tinder ivlnchlhev are < leet> d, wdl aiaoiuit
to an exp-a ss instruction to thein.fi.mi their
constituents. They will lie ileete-l for*a
spec-tie purpose, which purpose is d lilted in
the bill, and they will not.—they dare not,
sir,
I .......II.Ml, I ill, II.>1 mean in sa!, that I would
impose any pecuniary restrieiio is upon lliu
tight of siidr.ig.. ; the quulifi.-nthins of tliiS
right is sre.it enough now,—Hut, s:r, tho
worst feature in tin
would lie only thirty. If s xtecn repre
sentatives of counties, having three no nih.-rs
and increasing in population, should tic in
duced hv the local situation of their counties,
or by tlm prospect of their eouiiti s soon ris
ing to the rank ol large con it es, or hy any from the countv of Hal
other cause, to unite with the large counties, pie are not desirous of a
I Im
and
trust them- —' have sulficient con'idnuei', i-i
the virtue and intelligence of the people, to
believe they will select men, both nblo -n.il
virtuous.
Il is said, sir, hv the ho mrahle senator
t'tl, that the peo-
llter iti.m in llieir
the interests of the small counties would he i constitution. Me tell- ns. tli it it is some of
irostrasted at the feet of the m .jority ; their! us here, who are restless, and fond of anv
weight in a future Sen te wo.ild he lost, and ehiingo that wdl g ve ii ■ ao increase of power j joritv, p
ilmv would he deprived of the protect on, in tin senate. Sir, we who represent Inrgej rem,uni
— i5ut, s:r,
Minlter is, tli il the Img.-
Counties are taxed to piv tint repres -ntatimi
oftlie small, r ones. The majority of the peo
ple ti'isiihllely p iv the exjin ise of being gov
ern.-.! bv a minority. Is it not rigl.t, is it llf ,t
repu!d:c-in, that this great ev.l should he re
medied ! (' dl a eooviniiiou,mid lei tii- S iile
he ihvid.-d into senntoi i:,l d'striets ; nti-l then,
a -I not till then, wdl pmv. r In- equa ised. -
It is time,-ir, tlmt the see ,ti e had departed
tV- -.. Judah.
.prove
-, prei!
lie lax
ill that the repr
leip.ml. ! Img
this faef, to |if.
.e iteil upon tin
's of the l-i-t yi
l.t.ltlOM Ol till!
ave, sir, in or-
nl a f. w state-
'ensns ..f 1824,
r. There are,
Tli
which thirl hod:/, aa now constituted, affords counties, are not striving to get power, but tve j .... that the minority of tin e until s p ,i into
to tln-ir weakness and to their rights. Il are struggling against power ve are only the stale treasury ($18,587) forty eight thou-
i lien, they should, hy voting for this lull, en- . (‘.(intending for nil equal representation, vV for j sninl five Im aired mid forty seven dollars,
danger tlmt protection, lie would ask them equal weight ill the government. No, sir, it j more than the majority. But. sir, t ike the
with what face they could again present | is the small counties of this state who havo | tax of t vn thirls of the counties, nnd you
themselves before their injured constituents, too much now. r St, who seem determined, tni find it to In- (*23,8(5(1, and the tax of the re-
But, Mr II said, he had already tre»|M8- hold on to it. All that vve ask of gentlemen, | mainiii.g third will j»- $52,tills ; non strike
sed t .<) long on the patience of the commit is not th ' they will give us more power, Imt I a balance, and vou will see that one third of
tee ; he would therefore, only ask attention, that they will he content with less ; tlmt they j the coaoti.is of this state, p iv £28,7 42 more
to me single other objectionable feature of will yield up. for the sake of equality,
the hill, and conclude. H*' referred to lit it oftlie authority they now exercise. Mr.
section, winch provided for the manner in Chairman, ( am co-.vineed that a nnijor 'v of
whtel- the convention was to he constituted, the people of this slate are anxious to have
I'.v the lull, it is ns.si of the same na n- the numbers of tin- general assembly ear
lier of members ns now compose the Senate tailed, the expense of legisl ition p d.i.-i d, and
and the epreseiit.ative branch, tlmt is, two the representation equalised. I, sir, c hi
hundred and sixteen, to he elected by the prove it to the senate nnd will do it. When a
*iim- people and in the sum" manner; hill calling for a convention was before the
and no doubt composed of the, same, or sim- senate last year, the minority who voted for
ilar materials us the tun houses now wi-ri— it, represented about eight -■ thousand more
nieetii g together with dissimilar view s and of the oeople of Georgia, than the majority
objects, some to save power or to gain power, who voted J gainst and r--j.-ct.-d it. Thus, sir,
and others anxious either to gratify their vou s e that the people are favorable to a
constituents or to display llieir own skill in call for n convention, an I that n minority re
constitution making. Now, one argument jeet* nil nttempts to get up one, in spite of
which Iihr been strongly urged in favor of the declared will of the majority,
the hill is, tlmt the Senate as well as the other x( r _ Chairman, the expense of legislation
house, is too large, that it cannot conduct is enormous, and .hills- increasing; there is
business with facility nr give a due consider- |„ lt Wi|V to |,. S s fin the expense and that
atmii to tile subjects helore it. 1 his is no p, (.educe the members of both brunch*
doubt the fact, ami the number ought to be of the legislatim
reduced. But it the Senate be now too convention. The lower house is too
largo to make laws, would not tile Senate |-irsgB nniv for mv usefo! and practical pur-
uud Mouse combined, he too large a body pise, and ve-irlv increasing, and I believe,
to make a constitution. Let any one recur s j r) „,,j. senate is the largest in the union.—
to the every day scene presented in the joint Gentle.non talk about economy th v are
meetings ol* the houses, and ask himself, v gilant guardians of the treasury, they h
Ir.-as
th hi tho remaining
mt- the. st
tivothirds.
Ii', sir, tills nlr.rming iiie.pnd tv exis's, re
lative to taxation, in the co- stitutamal pow
ers of tin counties, the inequality of the rc-
pri-seut it 1 on is no l.-s.- alarming, wvh n vi. iv
to pop-dqt'.on. I’ ic.lt coiio'v lots one sena
tor, and that without regard to ts papula
tion. Now, sir, let us see, whether til peo
ple if the state are justly repri sented or not
The population of the state in lt;24, we
will snv, was 354,501). I'm v of the coun
ties of the state, uhii-h would m ike a major
ity of the vot -s in the senate, has a a popu
lation of SUM, nnd the remaining thirty
si x a pop.:! it o-i of 272,50k; so that the mi
nority of t!ie voters m the senate, may and
frequently do, represent 191,423spore of tho
people, th in the m .joritv \gnin: tli. popti-
latin of ivo third-of th coun'-e amount- o
I 22,162, mil l he population of the remaining
Tlii, is one great olq. cl 'third imounisto 231,123; ike > am cc s.r,
1 a nl vi hi ivil-li'.i 1 , that tn o-'lnrds of ihe wtirs
in lie senate, iom.treprose tasmany of, he
people lif the slate, ns I lie i nmmmg third, hy
11)8,1*41. Thus ivi- Ii H. e 'he Mogul ir fart p ov
er! that one third of the peo de do a anally go-
vihi th** v.hole of tile rest, ( all ilu-, sir,
whether such a body could ever agree upon; M s tro*<iT grasp up i > the mom v h
i constitution. Mr. II. said, he Imd given them for nil appropriation, and they fell you! P ;, b!n-u>- .sm.
A-k! *•' 1 i‘ von please, I call it any thing bat ro
ll s reasons for voting ogiinst the bill—he
should vote ag unst it, because he believed tin-
Semite had not the power to pass it. Ilu
should vote against it, because it might en- 1
danger the interests of the eastern disirict ;
lie would vote against it, because he saw no
Mr.
they will not suiter the people's money to lie
squandered. This is all (Veil enough. But
if gentlemen will.mono nisc wisely, let them | Imve ibscharge.l iny duty, t i mlorm-
tl.ii
t'h iirm hi, th*’
te of things if
people mav -submit to
il.ev I li- ; nn-l I li "I
the til.
mid in’-.
for the
legislature reduce.! at once, 'trike at th.
root of the evil Whv save the ounce an I
l!d!.
Mr
benefit which could result to the Suite at ^ squander pminds. Sir, I would rejoice to; ,. .-nmiU'-e, and s-m!
I 1 tio.
Bit MLS FORD then addressed the
. . .it was not Ins inten.-
large, by its passage. see the expense of legislation reduce.I, ami j (ion to have offered any farther remarks a-
Mr NT. SI! IT of Morgan said, I shall I do believe the oulywuy to reach the evil is j gainst the passage of the lull, it was with re
make no apology, for offering the ri marks I h* pass the liill upon your table. i jn,
shall now in ike to tlm senate Up n alii Mr. Ohuirmun, J have the honor to repre-jd
inee tlmt he now tell himself hound to
ii. Gelltli men have said that :he fre-
matters, particularly upon those of great and j sent upon this floor a county inferior i.i pnpu
general interest, it is my dutv, as w II as myj latum and wealth to but three or four in tin
privilege, to give the reasons upon which 11 state. 1 propose, sir, tribe plain—I d. I tint
I’nnml my vote. Tins, sir, is surely a measure come here to yield ihe rights of my c . t-te-
ol* much interest ; the country, sir, is vitally ents. h it to u-sert them, and defend them, as
interested in the passage of the bill ; it nffeets| far as I am able ; an I I beg leave to lie un-
all parts uf this state, and none more than derstond, ns not intending nr dosirmg t
ens-ion on tho merits of the lull; but he enn-
e.i-ived that no motion ofth.it eh iracter could
prevail or eft’eet the object intended.
Mr II V!!Ull>M.VM rose nail observed,
tlmt when the b.51 now before the committee
was first lead, lie entertained great doubts
ivlu ilier lie had not misunderstood its provi-
. unj when, upon an examination of
were tail 21 cm ilie-* iii the State, and when] its features, lie Imd Inum! that its provisions
there were but 62 Representatives and 24; were su -li ns they really were, lie h, g in to
Senators, making in t!ie whole number 861 entertain doubts whether certain opinions
luemhers of t e Legisl.iture, we find, repent-1 which lie had previously fonned, in relation
ed Nlr. G., that there were us wise, ns ifliole-l to the constitutional powers of Ilie Legislu-
siune and salutary laws i n u-ied, as are now | lure, wi-ru not erroneous These doubts were
passed. The first session that was held after I excited in consequence of the quarter from
the adoption of th institution of ’98, sai.l which the lull came. He had always been
Mr. G . cn*t the .State of Georgia only the! taught to entertain a very high respect Inr
sum of 8,8() ) uu.l odd doll irs, ami the s"s- the go .1 sense, sound jiidgment n id integrity
siuti was long and laborious, mid what ren-jof purpose of the lionor i le Senator from
d< red it more laborious than our ses-ions | l’utoam, and since ho had la
usually are, was the circumstance nf In ntgi iv ueqaaiuted with him, he Imd seen no rea-
tihliged lo carry into effect, and to sdj.ist tin-! sou to change ibis opinion; but when he
several parts of die constitution; hut til- Imd iigam nu.I again weighed the previsions
though the ses ions were long umllabnrions. nl th. lull, he had.-it length come to the cou-
nnd the represeutatiou so limited, as rnanv
iv.scan.! salutary laws were then euact.-.l as
have since been passed. The next session
that was held, cost the State 9,747 dollars.
elusion that the Leg-slatufe was assuming to
itself a power which it had not under the
constitution, and which if it could he coil
stirtitionullv exercised, might in its results be
and though the expense was gr- ally iiicreus- extremely injurious to the State, and prnha
ed, yet the number of members was lessened j lily would, if the object of tho bill was at-
doivn to seventy-two.
The ratio of representation has been incre
ing from that time until the present, and we
have new 216 members in Imili branches in
clusive, mid the expenses of the session ha-
t une I, lie destructive of the little politic.il
weight s:i!| retained bv that section of the
State ivlncli lie h id here the honor in part tn
represent.
Sir, slid Mr. If., I have said that in my
increased from $8814, which was the amount j opinion, this Legislature has m. tswstitulinil-
of money ilithursi.l .hiring the |ir„t session, ul power to p iss this bdl. It Ins i.o e.in-ti-
t« upwards of *>l53,lt'K). (n poi .tt, r; ■ uitional tight to cidl a cotHciition, and to de-
oftlte State, containing but a thin white p»p
ul,it .in, and whose little remaining political
w eight was di-p.-nda it upon nee of the vei l
see'ions embrace.) hy the In!)—he allitdeil to
that clause of the “ill seetioa, ivlueli |iro-
vi.ies “ that the counties shall be represented
according to the.r respective numbers of five
w hue persons nnd includi -g tlir.--- fifths of
all 'ho people of colour.” The c.institution
of ({eorgta was n.lopted at a time u h.m toe
E isteru .hstrirt was eomparativ. lv strong,
and was like ilie federal ami all other consti
tutions adopted by the States, the result ot
compromises—the then I! qir.-sent-itiv.-s of
the eastern district ivis.-ly stipulate-' for this
provision—they foresawth.it ,-o i er would tr i-
vel to tin: AVest, and that in time, tins provi
sion w ould Ih- tlm only safe-gu ird for even a
rem la lit >.f political power—mi.l now, when
tli.it tune Ims come : when even with that re-
personul- j se v:ilion,ghr has Imt one voice lure in tea,
how uaworthv of the trust coiifi led to him,
would that representative lie, w'm should
willingly and basely consent to lay tlmt priv
ilege at the fo.i* st.... I of the majority, depen
.hint upon their liberality for restoration —
Let us inquire lor a moment wlint might be
Ilie probable effects of u convention upon
tlmt section of the State. Suppose that con
i’. ntion,'in the conflict for power, which w ould
no doubt arise, and should sweep iiivav this
p-iv-lege—and suppose in order to reduce the
umber of the Senate to forty fin*, (he took
this number for argument sake) it should
d'vi.le tlie State into forti-flve senatorial
districts, cacti containing an equal or nearly
equal amount of white population—What
would he the efl'.-c' upon the eastern district?
tlmt part which l have the honor to represent
1 havo no doubt of the necessity or policy of
falling a convention-—untie at nil. I nm
not, s.r, particularly friendly to the amend
ment proposed hy the honorable Sen .lor
from Hancock. I would he in favour of an
utires ri.c -d convention, if such a thing were
pr i -tic ilile. *1 he defects of thee uis'itutnm,
the iniserahl.. inequality oftlie R.-presei.in
ti. in, and the greet and increasing exp.-ac.- of
Government, most loudly call for .. cimv.-u-, floor,
tiou. But, s't, u convention with unliimte i re.luc
powers, can not he had; the legislature iv 1111 so at
pass any reflection upon an- gentleman upon
this floor, or any comity in this state. Sir,
it is contended t!i it nil the e-.unties in tin-
state should he entitled to one senator*. Gen
tlemen are willing tn change the representa
tive hr inch, Imt contend that the senate
should remain as it is— that the smell comi
ties should retain the power they now hold i
th. senate. If, sir, reform is necessary .an)
where, it is here. Tl.-- .-v.ls exist upon this
Mv object is, <fc I am hold to avow it, to
the power of the small counties in the
Idniiuthelieveth.it territory should
not call for such tin one, quit the people I be a h isis nf represent ition ; if so, wherein
think are not inclined to a convention with! can we Imast of the super onty of our repre
unrestrained powers. 1, for iny own part, saulalive system, over the Holt n Borough
could nnd would trust Hie delegates of the system of England ? If ibis i lea be good,
people in convention, with unrest amed j I h id *s live sit as the member for old 8a-
poiverst ; still if I can not g.’t it, in one iv iy,l ruin in the British parliament, as the senator
—iii ii general I’.roi,- -l will hn willing to! from some of the counties of tins state. The
h ive one with specified powers. The nil u*ks truth, sir, need not Im concealed ; the ropro-
tl.e people,'to sny w hether they will have a seiituliou in the semi' ol the state is unequal,
convention with defined powers-—powers >-x- unjust m l oppressive. If, s,r, a foreigner,
tending only to the alter ition of the coust.tu- a citizen of Engl m l, were to n il us tli it our
tion, so for as u lutes to the organization of gov. riin.ent is worse than any in the world
both houses of the general assembly To this in its practical operatin'., we should in-1 turn which involves l-e interest of <h> North-
bill 1 am decidedly friendly. The corn nittep digit mtlv denounce him is a fo .| ...- a m id | t-rn and E i-'.-rn section of th Sia e, uml
will agree witii me, peril ips, when I say, that man. If an inha'fiia to f the moon (f her. wh it i li len.-e pre ...nderates ? It is :he in-
the arguments urged hv the lionoruble semi- be nnv then ) were to visit our sphere, and
tor from Chatham are more specious llinu sol- tell us we lived under a system iiueqii I and t. r
id Sir, there is no luck of talent-—of nbili- oppressive and iniquitous ; we should hold iv<-
tv in that Gentleman : for both he is distm- hint lunatic in.lee.L Now let us enquire,
gmslie.l ; and the character of his argument,. whether or not, that government, of which
is to he attribute I alone to the wretched h id
character of the cause he a Ivor ites. (1.
are proud, is .ot an unjust one, i . .some tionto buvi
respects. The lie intifiil theory of the g o- hut In- r.-pr*
pul.
would make the committee believe that the . eminent of Georgia, is, that authority is ex and lie felt it his
hid is unconstitutional—that it se.-ks an ill
terntinn of the constitution in an iiueoasiiin-
tioiml way—that there is but two ways hv
which that instrument cun he altered ; one hy
the people, calling a convention nnd tie
other bv tin- legislature , in the mannei point
ed out in the constitution itself. All this, sir.
ts true Bill, sir, the (fill does nut nft.-.-t the
constitution ; it does not propose to touch it.
I a*k gentlemen, if tin bill itself can in am
wav affect the constitution I It certainly
Effingham would be united with Clmthuin, rnu not. What, Mr. Chairman, docs the
population
sun iti.ri.ia
3
and tax .tion th it the repre-
the legislative depirtment, is
accordin? to tiopiilation—-that every citi
zen lias us much weight in tlu* government a*
Ins neig!i'ior-»- that the will of the majo
rity of the people governs. Now, sir, are M rga
those 11 ii * i x s true in pr.elir. ? Vr. tin-pen- said M
ties nniv represented in the s-m-
ix paid l.v the whole we will say*
is 76 tii'ii|-*;;ml dollars. I hive ascertained
th .1 forty of th- -e eontities, uIn. Ii are ii nm-fi
tax of about $11090, ami t!,c
irtv six p .y . tax of $(52,537 ;
I lent amemlmimtii tn ilie constitution, or r.a-
tlier alteration*, ivlncli have l.e.-n suggested,
gw.: positive proof of lbs delictive..c*s of
the i istr-iment, aril the necers ty fora far
ther alteration, T Vs was by i.o means con-
elusive to his mind. Tut ti e rejection of the
st-vi rnl modifications, which have bepii pro
posed, furnish a strong argument on the
i her side. The honorable gmitfemnu from
\1 i,nr i i h is s tel, that tlie people ivisue-l for
u convention, that the people called fur a
cniiv.'i.t.ioii, and that the people would have
a convention. Whenever, sir, the people
wish and whenever the people mil for a con*
v.mtiimi he, Mr. 15., for one roufd readily as
sent to the call. But is this the fact now?
Neither the log-e nor the eloquence ol the
g. tlcinau can eo- lioce me of it. But eie-
ry satisfactory proof may b.- urged agamst it.
Ameodnumts to ti e i-on.-iilutiiin lo.v. In on
offiwd—nod those t. ration- have h en oe-
g it v - !. 'I'll.! que- IO!) fl is l.ueo put direct
to tile people, whether they wished a con
vention ; and they have rejected die propose-
itian. But ill.-gt-ntl-.onn from Morgansays,
that a convention i'j necessary ; and why ?
Because the siii-dl . . unties rule the large,
and n county of 2110 intes, l-ioe cmotrols the
influence of the I ,r : st county in the Mate,
an I that n minority nctu .lly rnl s and con
trol- the majority. Is this again the fact t
Sir, I contend that H is not. Take any ques-
rest of the up cou trv; for th o, t e ras-
p.-ople nr uniformly vo ed down, and
we cannot carry any measure upon its Imre
merits, because we have not the power.
Mr. I!, repeated Imt it was not l\,s i ten-
r.y tiling IIpoll tillssuhj.Ct;
-.1 himself a small ceu. :y ;
:ii'y to I. tend the rigdits of
-d, in its, administration, according to the small < niinti.-s, and at any r ite 'he effc
which had honored him with its confi 'elite.
Vnd he would say to the honorable Senator
from .Morgan, th .t I is county, with it two
him )r..t votes, pins into the Tre snrv a tax
only 4 or 501) doll irs less than the con ty of
with its 11,000 people Then, sir,
will vou divest us of the right of
pie represented according to numbers?--— reprise, tingthis t.ivahle prop r'v,I mean'he
I- power exerted in nnv proportion m tli" three fifths of our I lack paoula'inn—for so I
amount nf taxes paid into the state treasury? understood Ihe geatl man? D. it, sir, and
I answer eo—fnrfromit. la thesceate of the point me to the man, who can have the fie