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COSGRKSSJOSAt.
IlOL'rfK OF REPRESENTATIVES.
May 22, 1838.
The wossaje having been read,
Mr. OWENS called for the rending oCthe
acC'Vnpanying documeiils, which being done,
Mr. BE EL moved the reference of the whole
on Committee on the Union, and that they be
pr, On d motion of Mr. CAMBRELENG, the
House passed to tlie orders ofthe day.
After some conversation hot wen Mr. EV E-
RETTand Mr. CA MBRELENG, the latter
rf whom stating that the above papers involved
a ttew qnesti m.
Mr. GLASCOCK moved a vote of reconsid-
era ion, so ns to refer them to the Committee on
Indian Affairs, and gave his reasons therefor.
Mr. HAYNES tva- in favor of the latter re-
ferencc.
Mr. EV ERETT advocated a reference to the
Committee of Wavs and Meats.
Mr. HOWARD preferred the original re-
ferenee lit the Committee on the Ihtton, inasmuch
as the subject was already before that body, on
the amendments to the bill to prevent and sup
press Indian hostilities.
Mr. HULSEY advocated the reference to
the Indian Committee, for he could not consent
lo embarrass the above bdl by btingingona
protracted discussion upon tlie validity (d the
Cherokee treaty. .Mr. II. apprehended hostili-
ities, wid alluded to a murder liiat had already
taken place.
Mr. REED ins'atcd that the reference already
made was the proper one, and lie moved to lay
the motion to reconsider on the table.
Mr. OWENS expressed a hope that the gen-
tlrwun wonItl not press that motion.
Mr. HULSEY asked for the yeas and nays,
but they were not ordered, and the motion was
rejected—ayes, 65, noes 63.
Mr. BELL knew nothing to he gained by the
reference of the subject to the Committee on In
dian A flairs, for there was not the slightest
ground to believe that that committee would
bring in any proposition. They would do noth
ing, but say “hands off.” Ho was sorry the
murder had been alluded to, fir there was no
facts to show that it evinced a determination on
the part of the Indians to commence hostilities.
As to voting money, Mr. B. was willing to vote
nil that was now and would bn necessary, even
to day if it was thought expedient; hut it would
be useless to refer it to the Committee on Indian
Affairs, as the Committee of the Whole on the
Union must eventually act upon it.
Mr. CAMBRELENG adverted to the impor
tance oftlie President’s communication, which
contained several distinct propositions, all of
wliiclt came within the province of the standing
Committee on Indian Affairs to inquire into, and
gave other reasons for giving the subject that
direction.
Mr. CUSHING expressed himself willing to
yield the floor on the Northwest boundary ques
tion to go on with the Indian hostility hill
The motion to reconsider was then agreed to
—ayes 73, ones Gf).
Tiie question then again recurring on the
commitment to the Committee of the W hole ori
the state of the Union, it was decided in the
negative, by tellers—ayes 72, noes 84.
On sending it to the Committee on Indian Af
fairs,
M r. EV ERETT moved to adJ the following
inst rue ions:
“And that said committee have power to send
for persons and papers."
Mr. DAWSON assured all parties that iftliey
expected to make any thing politically out of
this question they were very much mistaken.
\VIn*re could be jthe necessity, or what good
could result out of sending for persons and pa
pers to investigate tlie validity ot a treaty long
since ratified and confirmed? What ! were they
to suffer John Ross to arrest and change the
whole action of this Government ? Mr. D. had
labored day aud night tobiingthis man to a
reasonable proposition, but he had no sooner
succeeded than in an hour afterwards he with
drew, or changed his opinion.
Mr. D.said the only proper course for the
House to pursue was to disobey and disregard
the President’s recommendations, which were
in effect to declare war against the people of
Georgia. He, therefore, moved to lay the whole
subject on the table, but withdrew that motion
nt the request of
Mr. WISE, who Imped this communication
would be considered, and said lie would pay the
first compliment to the President he had ever
paid in his life, for his propositions were a virtual
acknowledgement that the pretended treaty was
no treaty, as Mr. W. had often before alleged.
He rejoiced that the Executive of th>- United
Sta'us had at last sign died a wish lo do justice
to tlie Ghorokeos. Mr. W. pursuant to his pledge
lo Mr. Dawson, renewed that gentleman’s mo-
lion to lay the whole subject on tho table, but
withdrew it by his assent.
Mr. GLASCOCK addressed the House with
in roe*-" instating on the obligation of the
treaty ol 1835, and thwsacrodness of the vested
rights of Georgia under it; the certainty that
her citizens would take possession of these lands,
and the imminent danger of an Indian war.
Should the Government attempt tooverturn that
treaty, Georgia would never be found wanting
to herseif, ns she had once before proved. And
he would say to the gentleman from Virginia,
[Mr. Wise] that his bold threats about casti-
gnlmg lus State into submission, bad no terrors
for him or the people he in part represented.
I his was not the first time that such threats had
’been made against Georgia, growing out ofthe
Indian treaties; hut she always took her stand,
and assumed her position under them, and was
• not to he lorced from it. She ever remained
firm, as she will now, amidst all tlie calumnies
and foul slanders which have been eagerly cir
culated to her injury, mid unawed by every at
tempt of those who, under the sacred garb of re-
lig'on and Iiuit nnily, seek to array against her
public feeling and indignation.
Sir, said Mr G., she plants herself upon those
rights secured and guarantied to her under the
treaty of 1835—a treaty solemnly ratified, and
having all tlie sanctions and requisites required
•by the Constitution, ami now the supreme law of
the land; and such rights, thus secured, gentle-
•men of all parties might rest assured Georgia at
least would peril her all to maintain and defend.
Independent of Iliis, said Mr. G., a large portion
•nf Ins constituents had rights vested in them
under this treaty, and by special enactments of
their own Legislature—rights to the possession
mnd occupancy of their lands; and they, too,
stand ready t<> resist, “even unto death,” all en-
•emnehments upon them, coming from what
•quarter they may. And ho could assure the
gentleman Irom Virginia, that if such contests
-shoulJ ever be made necessary, however une-
.oual mid unpleasant, they would never falter.
They had the firmness and the courage, on the
■one hand, to maintain their own rights under
the treaty; and, on tlie other, tlie magnanimity
.to protect and defend the Indians in theirs. Sir,
■they stand upon the treaty; mid all they nsk at
*he hands ofthe Government is a speedy enforce
ment of its provisions. They now ask it through
their repies ntatives, and they have a right to
■expect it.
[We l.*| >e to furnish Mr. G’s remarks at
length in a few days, as well as those of other
gentlemen.]
Mr. ATHERTON then rose and demanded
the previous question, as it was apparent that
n protruded disr ussion was growing out of this
prelim nary motion of reference.
After some conversation botwen tlicCIIAIR,
sii^ Messrs. WISE and McKAY, ns to the
rending ot the papers again,
Mr. OWENS moved to lav the subject on
tlie tnb'e, and called for the yens and nays,
which, being ordered, were yeas 39, nays 113,
as follows;
YEAS—Mess rs. Bouldin, Bynum, Connor,
Craig, Crockett, Dawson, Elmore, Fry, Glas
cock, James Graham, Gray, Griffin, Hawkins,
Haynes, Holsey, Howard, R. M. T. Hunter,
Kennedv, Martin, McKay, Montgomery, Moore
Murray, Owens, Palmer, Petrikin, Pickens,
Potter, Rencher, Richardson, Sawyer, Charles
Shepard, Shields, Stone, Thomas, Thompson,
Towns, Turney, and Y el I—39. «
NAYS—Messrs. Adams, J. W. Allen, An
drews, Atherton, Aycrigg, Banks, Beatty,
Bemie, Bell, Biekm-ll, Bond, Bronson, Cambre-
leng, W. B. Caiter, Casey, Chapman, Childs,
Coles, Corwin, Cushing, Cushman, Davies, De
berry, Do Graff, Dromgole, Dunn, Everett,
Ewing, Farrington, Fa'rfield, R. Fletcher,
Ftlmore, Foster, J. Garland, R. Garland, W.
Graham, Grantland, Grant, Graves, Grennell,
Ilalev, Halstead, Hammond, Hainer, Harlan,
Hastings, Hawes, Heroi, Holt, Edward B.Jack-
son, Daniel, Jenifer, Joseph Johnson, Keim,
Gotiverneur Kemble, Kilgore, Klingetismith,
Legare, L>'adbetter, Lincoln, Logan, Mallory,
Samson Mason, Maxwell, Robert McClellan,
McClure, McKennan, Mcnelee,Mercer, Milligan
Mitchell, Mathias Morris, Naylor, Noble, Par-
menter, Patterson, Peck, Pennybecker, Phelps,
Pope, Potts, Rariden, Randolph, Reed, Reily,
Rigway, Rives, John Robertson, Rumsev, Rus
sell, Sergeant,Sheffer, Augustine II. Shepherd,
Sheplor, Sibley, Southgate, Stanly, Stratton,
Taylor, Tillinglinst, Titus, 'Poland, Toucey,
Vail, W agener, Webster, John White, Elisha
Whitth-sey, Lewis Williams, Jared W. Will
iams, Wise, and Yorke—113.
So the motion lo lay on the table was decided
in the negative.
The question recurring on the demand for the
previous question.
Mr. MONTGOMERY said lie hoped this
subject would he settled, temporarily nt least,
without further excitement, and he appealed to
iiis fiiend from New Hampshire to withdraw his
motion for the previous question, to enable Mr.
M. to move the postponement for one week.
Mr. A THERTON not assenting to the re
quest, the House passed belwen tlie tellers, and
seconded the previous question—73 to 53; so the
main question was ordered, pir and agreed to.
So tliesubj- ct was referred to the Committee
on Indian Affairs.
IN SENATE.
May 22, 183S.
Mr. KING, of Alabama, observed that
he had glanced his eye over the document
transmitted by the Executive in his mes
sage of this morning, and he could not but
regret that such a paper had been laid
before the Senate. In the absence of all
information on bis part as to the leading
motive of the Secretary of War in making
that communication, he was at a loss to
know what disposition to make of it. It
appeared to him, that it was a most un
fortunate and ill-judged measure; and that
consequences of the most injurious char
acter might grow out of it- It was not the
time now to say any thing as to the char
acter of that paper; but he would observe
that there was no evidence that the Cher
okee delegation here was disposed to ac
cept the terms proposed by the Secretary.
It appeared to him that the delegations of
the States more immediately interested
in the matter ought to have been consul
ted; and considering how deeply the in
terests of those States were involved, that
no movement ought to have been made
without their sanction. As he bad not bad
time to give lo the paper that examination
winch its importance required, he would
move to Iny it on the table until be could
give it such an examination as would ena
ble him to determine what course to take
with regard to it.
Mr. CLAY, of Alabama, had listened to
the document just read with the most pro
found regret, mingled with surprise. He
regretted extremely that it had been
thought proper by the Secretary of War
(with the approbation oftlie President, no
doubt,) to lake a step like this without a
previous consultation with the delegation
of either of the States that were so deeply
interested in this important subject. As
res pc ted the delegation from Georgia,
Tennessee, and North Carolina, he had no
knowledge, and therefore could not say
whether they had been consulted in the
matter; but he would say, that neither his
colleague nor himself had had the slightest
intimation of what was going forward,
and that the first information he had re
ceived of it was derived from the paper
just read. So far from his being consul
ted, and prepared for any thing of the
kind, the very firstthing he did on hisar-
rival in this city, at the commencement of
the extra session, was to wait on the Sec
retary of War, and protest against any
interference with the execution of the
treaty, and to warn him that it would cer
tainly produce another Indian war, and
revive the scenes that bad been enacted
in Florida.
Sir, said Mr. C. tlie scenes in Florida
ought to have admonished the Secretary
of the danger of tampering with a subject
of such fearful importance, and that firm
ness and energy, with a rigid adherence
to the terms of the treaty, w 7 as the only
course to prevent warand bloodshed. This
temporizing policy was not the way to pre
serve tlie respect of the Indiana, or to cjuiot
the minds of our own citizens. The plan
of the Secretary proposed that the Execu
tives of Alabama, Tennessee, and Geor
gia might be consulted, and instructions
sent to Gen. Scott in time to arrest the ex
ecution of the treaty. And under what
circumstances ? As he had been informed,
there had been several recent murders per
petrated on our citizens by these misgui
ded Indians, excited, no doubt, by the de
lusions held out to them by their leading
men here at the seat of Government. He
hud just learned that the late surveyor
general of the State of Georgia had been
murdered by Cherokee Indians, and that
his ferryman had shared the same fate.
Such were the scenes occurring at the
very time that the Secretary proposes to
interfere with the ueaty, and bearing an
ominous resemblance to those which ush
ered in the Florida war. He had hoped
that other councils would have governed
the Administration, and that this treaty,
so necessary to the peace of our citizens,
as well as to the preservation of the In
dians themselves, and which had been
solemnly ratified by both Houses of Con
gress, would have been fairly executed,
and an end put to this distracting subject.
He would take the occasion to say, in jus
tice to himself and the people of his State,
that the Secretary of War was warned
over and over again before the commence
ment ofthe Creek war, of the danger of
the course he was pursuing, and he was
urgently solicited to provide for tlie pro
tection of the people against Indian vio
lence. Notwithstanding the danger that
threatened, he would not even undertake
to pay for a detachment of militia raised
for that purpose. What was the conse
quence ? Why the Creek war of 1-3G,
which was soon followed by that of 1837.
Without profiting by former errors, which
had been followed by such disastrous con
sequences, the Secretary was induced
again to falter in carrying into execution
a treaty which it was apparent could by
no means be got over. And what motive
prompted this pretended Cherokee delega
tion ? Why the whole secret oflhis mat
ter could be learned by the propositions
in die third article of the treaty submitted
by John Ross, which were, that all mon
eys due lo the nation should be paid to
the principal chiefs, to be by them dis
posed of for the benefit of the tribe. Here
was the whole secret. It was to get the
cont rtfl of the money, not for the benefit of
the poor Indians, but to enrich John Ross
and his asociates, while the rest of the
trihe were to be ground down to the dust.
Under the stipulations ofthe former treaty
the Indians were dealt with in a more libe
ral manner. The money was to be fairly
distributed, and not to be given to John
Ross, who assumes to be the head of the
nation, and hence his furious opposition to
the treaty. Against another article of this
proposition is, that the Indians are to he
protected in their present abodes until the
Legislatures of the several States interest
ed can be consulted. The Legislatures
ol Georgia and Alabama would not be in
session till the fall, and in the State oi
Tennessee there must be a called session,
as tlie Legislature will not meet till Octo
ber, 1839. Here, then, was to be a post
ponement for three years of a solemn treat}"
concurred in by this House and sanction
ed by the. other, and in the mean time a
body of troops is to be kept up, to protect
the Indians, though not a word was said,
he believed, about protecting the while-
population. And now he would ask, what
sort of force would be required? Why,
they must keep an aitny to restrain the
Indians and white people from coming
in conflict with each other. We, said he,
have had some experience on the subject.
We have had the Cherokee part of Ala
bama held under martial law, and we have
seen a military court martial undertake,
in effect, to usurp the functionsofour courts
of law.
What was the prerent state of things in
that country ? General Scott was now
there with troops in the fit Id, or shortly to
be there, to die amount of 7,000, so that
the principal part of the expense of re
moving these people was already incurred.
The militia called out, to the number of
5,000, were already there, or would reach
there before any orders from the Secrela-
rvofWar, countermanding them, could
probably get there. Mr. C. regretted ex
ceedingly the step that had been taken.
He bad told the Secretary frequently that
the most dangerous consequences would
ensue if the treaty was not carried into
| effect, and that his duty to his constituents,
I as well as humanity to the Indians, re-
1 quired that he should lay before him the
: true state of things in that country,
i Mr. WEBSTER, ofMassachusetts, ex-
■ pressed his regret that this paper was not
approved by gentlemen representing the
Slates concerned. Their approbation was
very important, as it would have a more
| favorable effect on the public mind. Mr. W.
j would now consider only the question of
1 its present disposal; and it struck him that
: it ought to be refetred to the Committee
1 on Indian Affairs. There was a strong
j and growing feeling in the country that
great wrong had been done to the Chero-
i kces hv the treaty of New Echota. But Mr.
. W . would not consider that now. Here
; was a communication from the Executive,
j requesting the action of Congress on this
: subject; and Mr. W. thought the proper
: course was to refer it to the appropriate
j committee. He moved, therefore, torefer
| it to the Committee an Indian Affairs, and
| hoped it would he done without provoking
J dig- ussion.
Mr. STRANGE, of North Carolina,
thought the discussion rather premature.
He would not have risen to say a single
word, might he not have been supposed
to be remiss with regard to the feelings of
the people of his State in relation to the
matter. It was true that he, like the Sen
ators from Alabama, had not been consul
ted, nor did he believe his colleague bad,
nor was there any intimationgiven. Wheth
er it was improper on the part of the Sec
retary not to have done so, he left lor others
to decide; neither was lie prepared to give
any decided opinion in relation to the doc
ument. His first impressions were such
ns had already 7 been expressed; but lie be
lieved it would be unacceptable to tlie
people of bis State, and would create a
great deal of unpleasant excitement. He
agreed with the Senator from Massachu
setts, that the subject ought lo be respect
fully considered, as well from tlie irnpor-
tcinoo f*i trio mnf tt'r qs tlio ccurc^ irnm
which it emanated; and he believed the
direction indicated by that Senator to be
the right one.
Mr. GRUNDY’, after a few words which
were not heard, said he thought the vote
of the Senate had settled for ever the
question of the validity of this treatv.
With regard to consulting the States in
terested, the State of Tennessee could not
be consulted, for bef Legislature would
not be in session until a year from next
October. The Legislature of that State,
at its last session, under the faith of the
existing treaty, and believing that it was
lobe carried into effect unaltered in anv
of its provisions, had provided forthe sale
of all the lands within the Indian bounda
ry, within a very 7 short period. Theoffi-
cersand surveyors were all appointed, and
the sale was directed to take place for the
benefit ofthe State, and not of the General
Government. All the legislation of the
State, therefore, in relation to this subject,
would be set aside, if the treaty was not
carried into effect. For himself, he could
only say that the treaty had been made,
and that it had been ratified by the con
stitutional authoiilies of the Government;
and that so far as his State was concerned,
he should very reluctantly do any thing
to change it. As to what it would he
proper for this Government to do to cairy
this treaty into effect with as little trouble
as possible, why, if more money was re
quired, he would cheerfully give it; but as
to letting the Indians remain where they 7
were, it was out ofthe question; and if it
was the last vote he was to give, he could
not vole torit. To let them remain would
inevitably lead to bloodshed.
Mr. LUMPKIN, of Georgia, stood on
rather different grounds in relation to this
subject from most persons. From time to
time he had been conferred with in his of
ficial station by 7 the Executive ofthe coun
try. He had communed with the present
and late President in relation to this af
fair. He had never entertained but one
opinion, and that was to execute with fi
delity the late treaty. Mr. L. said he was
aware that many of the Indians were op
posed to it, and he thought them honest in
their views. The Executive was disposed
to treat them with kindness and humanity;
and he was persuaded that the most lib
eral feelings were indulged towards these
unfortunate people. The Government
wished something done to soothe them,
and allay 7 their excited feelings. Mr. L.
would say to them firmly, hut imperative
ly 7 , "the treaty must be executed/”
It might he due to the Secretary of War,
said Mr. L. to state that he Mr. L. had
been consulted in relation to this matter,
from whichconsnltation, he presumed, this
document might have resulted. He told
the Secretary oi’War that he would be as
ready as any' man, and would go as far in
acts of kindness and humanity to this un
fortunate people. The communications
he had made to the War Department, lie
presumed, would he found on file there,
although they were addressed as a private
letter. If any accommodation could be
made by giving them some additional
compensation, no one could be more wil
ling than himself to effect such a meas
ure; hut it was necessary they should be
removed, and that at once. Mr. L. allu
ded to the murderofthe Surveyor General
of his State, and shortly after, his ferry-
mnn; all which murders he attributed to
the Indians, and said, as far as his State
was concerned, there wou»d be no com
promise. Mr. L.contended that the coun
tenance these Indians had received here
had been the cause of much of this excite
ment. Evil had been, and more would
still be, brought on the Cherokee people
by 7 Ross and his immediate associates.
So far as it was sought to delay or check
the fulfilment ofthe treaty, the document
would have no more effect than the paper
beheld in his hand. Tie Gecree had
gone forth, and they must 7 o.
Mr. KING observed that it was not bis
design to enter into any discussion with re
gard to the merits of this paper. He stu
diously 7 avoided it. His oily 7 object was
to lay the paper down, to g:ve him an op
portunity ofbestowing on it such an exam
ination as would enable lim to decide
upon the best course to take with regard
to it. He was content therefore, that it
should take the direction proposed by the
Senator from Massachusetts, [Mr. Web
ster,] and be referred to the Committee
on Indian Affairs. He sincerely regretted
that such a paper had ever beentransmit-
to them. The State of Alabama was
deeply interested in the question, as the
most ofthese people being residents within
her border. Y r et not one word had been
said to her delegation on the subject. He
felt confident that the object of the Sec
retary was a good 014*. but it was to cor
rect those who could not be consulted; and
if, sail 1 Mr. C. you were to adopt the pa
per to-morrow, these people (the Chero
kee.*-) would not he satified; they would
still ask lor more. He feared that this
exciting subject hail been taken up for po
litical effect, and he would say that those
who caused it ought to be aware that it
may terminate in shedding the blood of
hundreds and thousands. He was per
fectly content that the document should
take tlie direction proposed by tlie Sena
tor from Massachusetts, and that the Com
mittee on Indian Affairs should give it a
thorough scrutiny. If they could suggest
any thing to ameliorate the condition of
these unfortunate people, and render the
execution of the treaty acceptable to them,
he would cheerfully agree to it. But lie
must insist that peace shall he preserved;
our people, said he, are among them, and
their safety must not be jeoparded. He
was prepared to give the Indians as much
time as could be given without producing
injurious consequences. How long a time
would be ncessary he could not say 7 , but
they 7 must show a disposition to go,
and commence their preparation for remo
val in good faith. In saying that he was
disposed to give these people some little
more time, it was under this single
consideration, that they had been induced
by those who were their agents here to
believe that they could make some ar
rangement, by which they would be per
mitted to remain where they noware, and,
consequently, the forcing them off imme
diately, without sufficient preparation,
would occasion them some loss.
Mr. CUTHBERT, of Georgia, con
fessed that he had been much surprised
at the tenet of the communication just
roatl, and one which lie had not the slight
est reason for anticipating. No informa
tion on the subject had been afforded him
by the Department of War, or by any por
tion ofthe Executive branch ofthe Govern
ment. It surprised him greatly to find
that there was any idea of changing a
treaty solemnly ratified, on the very eve of
its fulfilment; and he was the more sur
prised at the idea of consulting the States
interested, when the very act itself of con
sulting them was lo change the treaty. To
morrow was the day appointed for execu
ting it, and yet it was proposed to consult
the State of Georgia, six or seven hundred
miles off’, for tlie purpose of changing a
treaty which was to go into effect to-mor
row. Let the gentleman from Massachu
setts he said, be cautious not to give too
much consequence to this interposition of
the Executive. Let him be cautious, as
well from considerations of humanity to
wards those unfortunate wretches, as re
gard forthe peace of the people of Geor
gia, not togive too much importance lo tin’s
communication, for this treaty would as
suredly be carried into effect, and any 7
obstacles thrown in its way must produce
the most fatal results. Would the interpo
sition at this -moment excite malignant
feelings, a desire for revenge, and bitter
hostility betwen the two races ? Ifso, then
let gentlemen reflect on the dangerous con
sequences ofstnh interposition. He should
be glad if gentlemen would suflerthis pa
per to rest for a few days. He was averse
tonny action on it, that would awaken
hopes that never could be realized, and
excite feelings which would end in scenes
of mischief and bloodshed. Let me, be
said, prevail on gentlemen to pursue $uch
j a course as will allay excitement, and
j avoid the giving of false hopes to those
j already too much deluded people.
M. CLAY of Aabama said he concur
red iu the view taken by 7 the Senator from
Georgia. He had too many indications
in another quarter lately in relation lo quite
another subject. We all knew how easi
ly 7 excitements were gotten up, and how
difficult they 7 were to allay. As the chair
man of the Committee on Indian Affairs
was not now in his seat, he would suggest
that it he permitted to lie over informally,
or on the table, for the present. It could
then be called up at the will of any gentle
man disposed to do so.
Mr. WEBSTER said he felt persuaded
that those who knew him, knewThat no
personal or political reasons could have
led him lo the course he had pursued.—
There were no grounds on which to pre
sume such motive. His sole object was
merely to fulfil his duty to the country
and to his own conscience. The Senator
from Alabama seems to treat tlie subject
as an excitement gotten up for political
effect. For bis own part, lie had no such
purpose, nor did any such feeling exist
in the minds of those he represented. In
moving to refer it to the Committee on
Indian Affairs, he was anxious to see if
something could not be done. It was his
wish to treat these Indians with justice
and kindness, and to convince the people
ofthe United States that it was our deter
mination to do so. Many excellent and
worthy men had it in their consciences on
their pillows, that some great wrong had
been done to the Cherokees in the treaty
of Echota. For this reason it was that
he d esired something to be done, which
might disabuse them of this impression.
If gentlemen desired to give them more
time, he was satisfied. For his part, he
was ready to give them more money, not
so much on their own account, perhaps,
but would do it to satisfy the people that
we have done nothing that justice and hu
manity would not warrant.
Mr. CUTHBERT observed that noth
ing could possibly be more unfortunate,
considering the conduct of the people
of Massachusetts to the aborigines with
in her borders, and the course of her
representatives here, than his reference
to their consciences. The gentleman said
that the “consciences” of his constituents
told them that wrong had been done to
the Southern Indians. Where were the
Indian tribes whirh once covered the ter
ritory of Massachusetts? Where slum
bered the consciences of the people of
Massachusetts when these tribes were
exterminated by them? Y’es, sir, butch
ered! W ere their consciences to be arou
sed for the first lime now after the bones
of tlie slaughtered red men in their bor
ders had crumbled into dust, and w hen a
case had occurred of which they knew
nothing, and with which they could have
nothing possibly to do?” To satisfy their
consciences! Who were these men whose
consciences were so tender? Were they
the men of tender consciences who would
let loose all the horrors of abolition in the
Southern States? YVere they the men
who, after endeavoring to excite a war of
extermination between the black man and
tlie white man, would now proceed to let
loose the red man? We have, said Mr.
C. the certain and unchangeable feeling
that any attempt to arrest the execution
of this treaty will be followed hy r scenes
of violence and bloodshed, at the very
contemplation of w'hich the heart sickens;
and yet these men talk about their con
sciences, and their desire to protect the
weak and tlie ignorant, while they are
seeking to produce them. God of Hea
ven! how are terms abused! Conscience!
merciful God! for men to talk of cons
cience while their course leads to violence
and bloodshed.
Mr. PRESTON said he had heard the
message from the President, proposing
new 7 arrangements with the Cherokees,
with unfeigned surprise and regret. He
had hoped that this painful and compli
cated matter had been finally put at rest,
by a determination on the part of the
Government to go on with a slow, cautious,
but steady pace, iu the course prescribed
to it by necessity. The Cherokee treaty
was in his judgment, humanely rati
fied. The same wisdom and humanity
demand that, as far as the removal ofthe
Indians is involved, it should be firmly
carried into effect. Hesitancy and fur
ther agitation can produce nothing hut ill.
The rights of the States and of their cit
izens have been recognized and establish-
lisbcd, and should not again be disturbed.
On this matter gentlemen from the States
interested are entitled to lead. They
know best w hat is best for them. I shall
acquiesce in what they suggest. Nothing
but my deference for them prevents me
from at once moving to lay this message
on the table, for the purpose of trying the
sense ot the Senate as to its further dis
cussion. The execution of the treaty is
intiusted lo a gallant officer, not less dis
tinguished by his moderation and discre
tion than by his bravery and military
skill. Whatever humanity 7 and prudence
exact may be expected at his hands.—
The Indians must go; any interference
here endangers them. As to money,
lands, See. give them as much as you
choose, but do not further suspend the
just claims ofthe States, or further irritate
their already exasperated feelings. I
hope the gentlemen interested will not
permit the proposition for postponement
tube drawn into discussion, but that they
will put an end to it by a motion lo lay on
the table.
Mr. CUTHBERT observed that he o-
mitted to notice, when last up, one im
portant fact, which he would now call the
attention of the Senate to. But for the
ratification of this treaty, two years ago,
the State of Georgia would herself have
dispossessed these Indians of the territo
ry on which they ought not to have re
mained. For tw 7 o years Georgia had pas
sively yielded and suspended the opera
tion of her laws, under the full belief that
this treaty would be faithfully carried into
effect. But just at the critical moment,
on the very day that it was to be executed,
it was proposed to arrest it, and to consult
the State of Georgia loo, 700 miles off,
after she had already wailed two years.
He w 7 ould vote for laying this communi
cation on the table, no to be taken up a-
gain.
Mr. WEBSTER stood on peculiar
ground, it Mips, and he found it ac
cessary to defend himself. Here was a
communication from the President, deem
ed by him important to be communicated
to the Senate. If there was any thing in
that document which could have drawn
forth such strange ejaculations, he thought
they might as well have been directed
against the source from wdiich it emana
ted. He would not reply to the animad
versions of the Senator, much less w 7 ould
he go back to his ancestors to trace the
wrongs which have been done to the red
man; they w r ere sufficiently numerous, he
dared say. The mere object he had in
view when he moved to refer it, was that
it should receive the respectful attention
the importance of the subject demanded.
Mr. CALHOUN presumed that the ob
ject of the Executive, in making this com
munication to Congress, was to endeavor,
if possible, 10 remove with their own con
sent that portion of tlie Cherokee nation
who were yet unwilling to go. Tlie ob
ject was a very important one, and one
that was exceedingly desirable. He fear
ed, however, the consequences to which
the gentleman from Georgia alluded.—
The business of removing these Indians
with their own consent, would be a very
difficult one, but to lemove them without
it, woud be much more so. He supposed
that if any plan was effected by which
further time was allowed, that tlie emi
gration should at least commence, and
then it might progress as fast as circum
stances permitted. Certain it was that
no such arrangement could he made un
less with the concurrence of the Senators
of the States interested, but if it could
be the arrangement, would save same
hundreds of thousands of dollars. But it
was important, however, that the emigra
tion should commence at once in good
faith, and progress as fast as circumstan
ces would allow. He was not prepared
ed to say whether there was any practic
able plan that could be devised to satisfy
all parties, but bethought that a reference
of the subject to the proper committee
would be the easiest, was ascertaining
that fact. One of the members of this
committee was a representative from one
of the States concerned, and moreover
the importance of the subject deserved a
reference.
Mr. CLAY of Ala. thought it would
be better to let the subject lay on the ta
ble for a day or two. As regarded the
modification proposed by the Senator
from South Carolina, it was totally unne
cessary, as the Commanding General was
fully authorized to effect the removal in a
manner the most favorable to the Indians.
He was not to force them off’ all at once;
hut gradually, and as fast as the nature
of circumstances would permit, without
subjecting them to injury and loss.
Mr. CUTHBERT said if there had
been any fair attempt on the part of Mr.
Ross to arrange the difficulties, he had no
doubt they would long since have been
arrranged; but instead of that, this man
had remained here creating prejudice,
and excitement for his own selfish and
ambi ious purposes. If he had gone home
to his people, while the fate of his nation
was on the balance, from thence have
made his appeals, there might have been
less reason to impugn his motives.
Mr. KING observed that no motion was
necessary to lay the papers on the table.
They could remain there without anv fur
ther order, until it should be thought pro
per to call them up.
The documents were then, by general
consent, laid on the table.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
May 23, 1S3S.
CHEROKEE INDIANS.
Mr. McKAY' asked leave to offer the
following resolutions:
Resolved, That the Secretary 7 of War
be directed to communicate to this House,
with as little delay as practicable, the a-
mount that will be required for the addi
tional allowances proposed by him to be
made to the Cherokees, in his letter to
John Ross and others, under dale of the
18th May, 1S3S, specifying under separ
ate heads the amount necessary under
each.
Mr. WISE, who was entitled to the
floor, went on at length to review and
condemn the Cherokee treaty 7 , as a fraud
perpetrated by Parson Schemerhorn and
Agent Curry. The compact between the
Federal Government and the State of
Georgia, he insisted, was not binding up
on the third party, the Cherokees. He
was fiir compelling Georgia to abide the
action of the Federal Government, and
to castigate her if she refused to obey the
laws of the General Government, for he
would take sides with justice. He said
this, too as a State Rights man. A State
was bound to obedience, and could be
coerced to it on refusal. In the course of
his remarks, having made some reference
to the treaty with the New York Indians,
Mr. FILMORE followed for a short
time in its defence.
Mr. WISE reiterated his allegation,
that this treaty had been brought about
by improper means, by the use of whis
key 7 , and the withholding of the Seneca
annuity. It was a minority treaty.
Mr. FILMORE replied that he had
made special inquiry in reference to whis-
key, but found the charge unfounded;
that the treaty was made by a majority of
the chiefs, and the annuity was withheld
only for w ant of specie, as he understood;
and it was denied by those who knew,
that the annuity was kept back to coerce
the Indians into a treaty.
Mr. WISE rejoined to the latter, and
read, in support of the charge, a letter to
Maj. Garland, from Mr. Striker, advising
the holding back of the payment, and a-u
other to the same effect from Schermer-
horn, who took upon himself to attend as
the evil genius of the Indians everywhere.
Mr. TOWNS of Georgia then proceed
ed to reply to Mr. Wise; in the course of
which he expressed his regret that such a
document as the message of the President
should have been sent in; and though he
gave the President credit for good inten
tions, Mr. T could not thank him for it.
If the knowledge of it should reach the
Indians, bloodshed must inevitably ensue.
Had such a paper have been issued twelve
months ago, with the consent of the States
interested, it might, perhaps, have effect
ed its object; but it was too late now.—■
The gentleman from Virginia talked of
castigat ing Georgia. Castigating for what?
Not for disobeying th* laws of the land*
ibr Mr. T. insisted that Georgia was ou
the side ol the laws, and in adhering to
the compact and the treaty made in pur
suance thereof, was maintaining the laws
So far from having nullified, the course’
ol Georgia had avoided any such issue
He deprecated, with much severity, tho
use of such a term as that of “castigation”
of a State. ‘
Mr. WISE explained that he had mad*
use of the remark, in reply to what was
regarded as a threat, from more than on«
member from Georgia, who declared that
unless this treaty was carried into effect*
Georgia would take her own rights in her
own hands, and it was in reply to that
threat, that he had used the term he had.
Mr. TOWNS continued, and reassert
ed his former point, adding, that the House
of Representatives, not being the treaty-
making power, could not go into an exam
ination of this treaty, with a view to its
revocation. Mr. T. however, maintained,
that it was a valid treaty, and went on to
defend the course of Georgia in extending
her criminal jurisdiction over the Indian,
territory within her limits, a solemn duty
imperatively imposed upon her from the
pretensions of independent Government-
and conflicting laws, set up by and enact
ed by the Cherokees. Hence this policy
of her’s was not of her own seeking, but
grew out of a combination of circumstan
ces ovet which she had no control. Mr.'
T. then went into an examination of ffi*i
treaty, and maintained that, in every re
spect, it was conformable lo all othe’r In
dian treaties. The whole difficulty, and
the only difficulty, had grown out of John
Ross, who produced it for his own person
al benefit; for he had shown himself, by
his own admissions in his letters to tha
Secretary of War, to he purchasable at a.
price. Mr. T. admitted that the treaty
was made by less than a majority, but
RosS reptesented a much less number -
than those who made it, for he and his.
friends were invested with power bv only
about eleven hundred, out of a number
alleged to consist of seventeen thousand-
So far from Ross being actuated by a re
gard lor tlie interests of his people, or a
love of his country, he was impelled sole
ly by a love of lucre; and if enough was
given to him, if he was bribed high enough,
he would consent to any treaty, or any
modification of the present one.
Mr. WISEoffered an amendment, which
he said he should move in the House, as
follows:
Provided, That no part of the appro
priation herein made shall be applied to
removal of the Cherokee Indians west of
the Mississippi, or to preparations fur-
hostilities with them, until the Secretary
of War shall have prosecuted lo a con T -
elusion of success, or failure, the negoti
ations to modify the late treaty with that:
tribe, according to the recommendations
contained in the President’s message sent;
lo Congress on the 22d inst.
Mr. W. then went on to comment withi
severity upon the treaty made by Mr..
Schermerhorn with the Cherokees, and)
contended that the treaty was made withi
a small portion of the Cherokees not pro--
crly authorized, and read from documents
to support his views, contending that!
the treat} 7 of New Echota was made with!
less than seventy of the nation consisting 7 -
of over eighteen thousand souls, and that
the people did not feel bound to attend the
council, because it was summoned by.
Mr. Schermerhorn, who was not a chief.
ofthe nation; and that nineteen twenti
eths of the nation would oppose the trea
ty which was obtained, as tlie documents
would show, by- false representations and
pretences. The fact that the treaty was-
made by less-than a hundred was admit
ted.
Mr. DAWSON and Mr. HAY NES both
protested that they made no admissions,
to be used 7 ' for effect out of the House,,
either against Georgiaorthe Government.
Mr. WISE still urged that the preten
ded treaty.was no treaty, and if the gen
tlemen from Georgia did not know any}
thing about it, they ought to know, and
might., if 7 they would look at the docu
ments—
Mr LEG ARE asked if the treaty did
notoEbivihe Indians better lands, and,-
however it might have been made, it it didl
not in fact better the condition of the In
dians.
Mr. WISE said he had permitted 'the'
question to be asked, though it did not
touch the point under examination, which-.
was, whether a treaty existed at all; but!
he would state that, if the land was good,
the water was not, and they found it *n--
wholescme, and were not so well off as-
they had been. He, however, recurred?
to the evidence in the case, and approved
of the message of the President, which
would cost the Government a hundred'-
thousanil dollars, though it ought not tO'
cost them one dollar. He then went om
and read Irom various papers to shnwlhe
opinions of officers of the United States,
that it would be unjust to enforce a treaty
made by a few unauthorized individuals,-
and opposed by' the larger portion of-the
Cherokee nation. He read from ivreport.
of General Wool, a statement that'the
great portion of tlte nation refused to ac
cept rations from the United States, for
fear they might compromit themselves in
relation to the treaty, and that they pre-
ferred to live upon the sap of trees and 1
upon roots, rather than accept rations*
The report of Mr. Mason, who had beem
sent to the nation, for the purpose of as
certaining facts, was also read in part, to
support the ground that tlie voice of the
nation was unanimously against the treae
ty, and that it would never be assented to
as an authorized treaty, nor submitted to
as such, until they saw the bayonets of the
United Stales levelled at their breasts. It
was extraordinary he remarked, that the
authority of John Ross, according to the
report of Mr. Mason, should be unques
tioned by the nation, and that he should
pursue the same direct course, notwith
standing many attempts to bribe him to
acknowledge the treaty ; and notwith
standing the abuse heaped upen John
Ross, it was uniformly asserted by the
agents of the Government that John Ross
could not change his course, or change the
feelings ofthe nation if he would, but that
he stood unquestionably between the whit®
men and bloodshed.
Several gentlemen interposed; and
Mr. TOWNS made an explanation in
justification of ibe course of the fcwte