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think tit ! prisoner is J. L. B. ; I see no features of
;J. 1.. 15. hid a round full face, light hair, dimple in
h r h.t/.le.
led.—.l. 1.. 15. was quite young tv hen lie left here ; about
d ; had down, hut not much bV.H'd. .1. L. 15. was fro
frequently away ; he tttas often nt my establishment,
tv o trips oil'; he was absent at school; went to Athens ;
be staid long ; I don’t know, of my own knowledge, of
ifl‘*tiliiis ; heard of the scrape about the horse ; his rc
tguita and going oil’, was all within a few months,
evetal menti s absent on bis New York trip. Prisoner
> the Slutter fanirly, •
-AM Willingham.— Was ncquainted with E. Barber
s, inti winnett county,: he lived part of the lime ntmy
crop wi.li me; had been there before: I was well ae
m : I think the prisoner is the yntne mnn. The last time,
innclt. was in 1826: I again saw him in Upson, in 1827 ;
lere. He was not pointed out to me: 1 knew him at
up. I c m swear to his identity with asmueh certainty
Hr had a sort ofsn mg, in bis arms , his elbows crooked
as he walketl. I have heard him converse since he
I saw him in a light with Thomas Hill; was bit some
cr. I once fought fol him. •
■d.—• think he cut hi* foot with an axe or mattock, al
•it recalled the part; don't know whether it left a scar:
When I saw him in U winnett. I should say he was 23
had bis giowth ; don't recollect his having very large
tig fingers and toes, lie shaved at that time. I saw
rm I'pson. in H 27, and hero again nt last Court, in
hen the Judge was sick. Don't recollect the size of
« m irried ; heard he was married in the road ; the girl
lat my house, before and after they wi re married I
v were tnarried nt my house; nor that I saw them mar
ed in th’ time they lived there ; they went otl and got
married ; thev went ti> Esquire Melv'w’s ami got married; they after
vvaid* wcut to I 'wou ; thev moved m I psoti in the latter part ol l. x 2t>.
or the tore pnt of I <27. I have not said that 1 did not know prisoner.
vvhen I first came here ; I have not said that I was the Esq lire that
married them.
■ 21.'* Witutse—li'm. Cm phi J.— Knew Barber, in Gwinnett, be-
tween three mid four years; we worked many a-d >y together, and
washed togeilier in mill-pondv ; were to sprees together, mid was thus
intimate for the lust part of two years. V> e worked together nt Shad
Bogan's, mid V.>el Willingham's I last <aw him in G wiimett, in IS2t>,
|M I think the pi isoner is 4’. Barber. I ue*t saw him in the streets, in this
place, in ( let.>'>.;■ 137 ; ho was not pointe I oat to me, I recognized
9u him as he lit from his horse ; I l.avc had no conversation with him. He
lias the same w a'k. a* formerly : the same crook of the arms, and mo
lion of the shoulders. To the best of my know ledge, 1 think he is thy
vnmc man.
t ross-cxnmmvd.— E. Barber was inclined to be bow legged, and 1
t amk hi- now t. ie- walk more s'rnit and proper : I notined him stepping
M about and trying to st.--.nd. and did this from my recollection that Barber
was a little how logged. I don't recollect any particular maik about
him ; don't recolLi t any sear or mark about him, though I saw him
naked. lif ie, untie dth it his h inds or feet were bigger or less than
common peojde.
227 It t. -.-, —G'<org,- —Km wE. Barber for abort 5 years. His
f 't'lei'rent ’d a p|. utation about half a mile from me. He worked at
Bogan's mills about a year, and I kept the mill. during the time. Bogan
kept as nt of grocery. I saw Barber very often, and think prisoner
BB is th,’ mm. His w alk and manner, then and now. are the same. I saw
E. B. it> August, in ItGl). I saw him in Augusta jail: he told me he
was pm in there lor taking and sending ofl" a fiee colored boy. Don't
H| know how or whin he got cut: lie waggoned for Mr. Baldw in, in l.aw-
lenccville.
E9 237 is.? ZJ.?,;.! >,’n Coo/wr.—Knew E. Barber, in Gwinnett, for
about two years : was intimately acquainted with him; have hired him
to do coarse carpenters-work ; and he has frequently slept army house ;
M we worked together at Mr. Baldwin's ami Cui. Featherston's. I have
BB no doubt the prisoner is the same man. 1 last saw him in 1825, in
G w iimeti ; mst at Lawrenceville, last March. Iliad no knowledge of
his being there, and immediately pointed him out; saying, there goes
I.. Barlnr, now : there was a crowd of people there.
|H ('ros.-examined.— I had heard nothing of his being there, when I last
■ it.v him at Lawrenceville; it was about 10 o'clock. I did not know
Bgj <‘i l. Hill. 1 think 1 saw him there, on the same day. I heard afterwards
Ki th at the crowd met to identify limber. Don't recollect any marks
M abort him. 1 think Mr. I’.diner was walking widi him. He was not
pointed out to me and 1 did n it know of the examination that was to
H belli.!. 110 might lie termed a little bow-legged : had a curious walk
!■ nod carriage. I might have been introduced to Col. Hill. I don’t rec-
H idleet the clay; Don't recollect whether Court of Ordinary was sitting;
M Esquire R.ibe.ts and Mr. Sterling w ere w ith me. 1 saw Mr. Lowther;
H don't recollect seeing Mr. Lowther ami prisoner walking by themselves.
■ I thi ik it was the s ime day adilficulty took place.
H 2l?/i Witness—John Hsrry.—Kucvr E. 15. in Gwinnett, about two
H years; he got in my debt; saw him frequently. The prisoner is the
H same man.
H Cross-i xamiiied.—l did not say. in Gwinnett, that I did not know
H prisoner ; but that 1 knew him. 1 tuck his note and he made his mark
H to it, nnd his brother too. »
H 25M />7//irs«-—.Sf»,’on Zi'errjy—Knew E. B. in Gwinnett, about two
H years ago; was much with him : saw him frequently at Bogan's miil;
H 1 saw him frequently ;>t Esquire Willingham’s Court, whcie I acted as
■ bailiff; I knew E. B. well; prisoner is the same man. He ploughed one
M season w ith Willingham.
9 Cross-examined—Old Mr. Barber kept the mill for Bognn. I got Mr.
9 Barber's wife to stay with my wife, when she was sick; the old man
9 li’ lin Bogan’s field. J knew I’. B. when his father kept the mill.
9 don't know how leng Staen kept the mill. I don't recollect the time. I
9~“ think K left there in 1526. I have no bad feelings toward prisoner;
9 w<- mice bad a little ditiieulty at Bog n's : we had a little difficulty here ;
9 p:isou''r shot off pistols and followe I us with sticks; this was not at
9 the jail, tve had no difficulty there. lie said. ”1 will remember you
9 Gwinnett men."
B 2 i.’A f! :intrx-—yiicl:rnl H'illingham. —Was acquainted with E. B.
9 in Gwinnett; I was quite a youth; I ploughed and hoed corn with
9 h-’.’ abmtt a year. I next saw him here ; and I think I have a clear rec-
o.lcetimi of him. I think, to the best of my recollection, piisouer is the
I same man.
Cross-examined.-—E. B. cut his foot, when wc were working to
gether, with an axe ; I think it was near bis toe ; 1 do not know whether
thcr.'it as a scar left: I suppose that it may have left a scar ; 1 stated at
Mr. Gresham's that I expected he had a scar- I recollect that my father
had as; fit for prisoner. I might have stated in Clinton, that there was
probably a scar; I examined, and did not perceive a scar: I don't know
that there was a scar on bis leg ; and do not iccollect saying so. Esquire
Lowtlier went into the room with me; Esquiro Sullivan was there. 1
flon’t recollect a lady's being in the room.
27/A F. Berry.—-Knew E. B. in Gwinnett about
two years ; was often with him, and knew him well. I was then about
I Iye ics old ; us.-d to frolic with him. Saw him fight Mr. 11 ill, and Hill
b.t hi< finger; I think his forefinger. I think prisoner is E. Barber- J
s-iw bi n strip and roll up his sleeves last Sunday week, and he looked
q-iitc natural then. Have not seen him since 182 G, till last Sunday
week. He mid Mr. Willingham then had a little difficulty, and he said
he could whip Berry; taking Willingham for Berry.
Cross-examine I.—-I think E. B. fired one pistol. I knew himasquick
as I saw him. I don't think lam mistaken about his firing the pistol.
I don’t recollect any particular marks cn bis arms. I knew him from
Ids general appearance, make and carriage. I havu seen him stripped
to fight, and his .actions. In 1824, I think be wasabout 18 or 19. may
. be 29 years old. I was about 14, and think l:o was then 4 or 5 years
older. 'I he pistol was fired about eight miles above here, on the Hills
, boro'road. 1 don't know the name of the place. Don’t lecollect see
ing M.. M irdi or Mr. Cox there, (2 of the jury ;) don't know how many
persons were there; there were several; thev were all strangers.
2 th /dcn/ontoi Zip;.— Knew a young man. in G winnett, bv
uatn ■ of E. Barber: first Iqiew him in 1821 or '2: I knew him off and
on, 4 or 5 years; I was jailor there. E. B. was put it) my hands;
once n ai put in jail. Win. Barber was put in. hand-culfed, from Epson ;
Elijah was arre-ted in Lawrenceville. I don't recollect whether E.
mid Wm came together; lint E. was there. Recollect's distinctly his fea
tures. I think prisoner is the same rnan that 1 knew as E. B.
29ih VV iti>e-s. H’w. Gordon— Knew a man in Gwinnett by the
name of E. B. ; not intimately aconainted with him. I recollect
his features and appearance well. Prisoner at the bar is the same
man. lam not related lo Gen. Gordon.
3'>th \\ itness. Hugh Gordon— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett; recol
lects his appearance and features. I think the prisoner is the same
man.
31st VVi oe s. Gdunril H in/ —Knew E. B. in Gwinnett about
three years. Knew him well in 1826 ; lie made a crop at Willing
lum’s ; I romenibcr his appearance and features well. 1 think pri
son r the same man.
32J VV itin s .Trim's Campbell— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett about
th'iee avl a half years—saw him frequently ; he has been many
times at m~ li ia .". I n’.xt saw him last March; was called on to
idqptify ; I recognized and pointed him out. 1 called his name—
afm prisoner is the man.
imincd.— I think Mr. Palmer was with the prisoner ;
t!fr-.qje was a note requesting me to come into Lawrenceville to sen
pri.-mer; I expected, when I went intown, to see prisoner, I first
sawtiim in M r . Sindh’s store; I do’nt know if I saw Mr. Towles.
33d Witrfess. Gm. llrogden— Knew E. IL in GwinnMt, two or
three year-; I recollect his features ami appearance, and had a good
opportunity to I,now him. I think the prisoner is the same man—
lie i l iiiiMul old John Barber as his fither. Mr. Bogan had a grist
• ans -saw mill, old Mr. Barber kept the grist, and Steen the saw mill.
3 Ith VV .Tchn Angling— Knew E. B. in Franklin, when
be wasabout fitteen or eighteen years old; I saw him in March,
1826, and again i.i Lawrenceville, last March. I recollect his fea
tured atr-J appearance, ami prisoner is the same man.
f’ioss-exarnmed —l'hc Barbers that 1 knew in Franklin were the
- same that went to Gwinnett; I know no marks on prisoner. The
' ' lust time I saw prisoner in Franklin, was in 1822. I think in 1826,
,1 *aw him on liw. way tn Augusta. I did not see him again till March
18*J7. I raid' him but few hours at any one time;
35th Wijm-ss. Samuel illom— Knew J. L. IL about three- years.
I. not diink prisoner is J. L. IL I had an interview with prison
er ; he w'as ly'me down, am] said he knew me, but co dd not answer
me 1 saw J. L IL at Philip (latching's
wedding; Im 'sent firom there to the infair—piisouer could not an
swer any questions about it ; lie said be knew, but could never tell
my namc» I recollect that .1. L. B. had a finger partly
gone, without n iuj.bnt d'o not reeollijct which hand.
Urosit-cxaminC'd —rjjved near to J. L. IL all the time; I was not
very intimate, but lie was I think we staid nearly all night
together at Mrs. Jonos’still; I did not see hisjiand get injured ;
frequently saw bis band. 1 first saw him in 1822, and till 1825,and
have not seen him since, till this man came here ; I should think he
was bare'y grown. I saw him till early in 1825; i should think he
was nearly grown ; ho might not have been tak< n by stringers for ‘
more than seventeen or eighteen years old. I know no marks about
J. L. IL but the linger. Prisoner is not of the size, height, or com
plexion of J. 1.. B, and different hair; I do-not know what < liaiigo
may have tal-.en place front the time I last saw him till prisoner ar
rived here; 1 think I have not seen him since 1825; I concluded
4
; from personal appearance that ho was J. L. IL I foutrded my
opinion that it was not J. L. IL from liis appeaiancc and conveisa
i lion. I do not know what change eleven <. r t wclvi! make
in a manJioin nineteen to twenty xear.sof age. I saw a man that
I had not seen in fourteen years, and 1 immediately knew him, 1
saw a cousin that 1 had not seen for thirteen yea's, and knew him at
! once. I had one conversation with prisoner, and .«!o not think lie
I was drunk ; I h ive had no parlieul r conversation with him since the
! first intetview. Prisoner recollects nothing about being a! the still;
[ went to see prisoner under the belief that he was J. L. IL
<36lh Witness. H /.’t. Mitrhcll— l Lave known E. IL from bis
: birth, ami his mother before him, till lie left my county (Franklin.)
lie was nearly grown when lie left there—lived about two or three
j miles from me. I saw he moved, nine years Fist October
'—l remember him well, and bis appearance. I should take prison
er to be the same man. The Shin ill' of Franklin subpoenaed me ; I
am subpirnaed on both sides—was subpernaed by prisoner first. 1,
was here in October, ami saw prisoner then—when 1 first saw him
: I can’t say that ! recognized him as E. IL, but I did before I got out
| of the room.
Cross-examined—l bad no conversation with him since ; I said
before 1 saw him that he had a mark on the side of the throat • 1
did not siy 1 should know him by a scar on the face ; I do not re
collect saying that I did not find the marks 1 expected to find on E.
B. Ido not lecollect saying that the man did not resemble the Bar
ber family, for they were straight, and prisoiier was inclined to bo
round shouldered. Ido not recol.cct saying, when 1 camo cut of
the room, that 1 was satisfied it was not E. B. I did not first recog
nize prisoner as E B. He took oil liis cravat very readily when 1
asked him to strip. I did not find any scar to know him by—l had
not seen him fm nine or ten years. Prison; r asked me, and Major
Smith als.i, to come to the adjourned court ; 1 don’t recollect Mr.
Skitter, nor how many were in the room ; several went in with me,
ftom my own comity ; 1 knew them, but 1 did not know the others.
1 don’t recollect telling prisoeer or Major Smith that I took him to
be Barb.T.
37th Witness. D. Bird— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett and in Hall;
ftrsi in Hall; 1 recollect, distinctly, his appearance find features; I
think this is the same man—have not seen him from 1825 till last
October.
Cross-examined—*l saw him in October in litis plaCc ', Scvetal of
us were looking for hint, to sec if we would know him ; wo saw
, him on a cross street; 1 don’t say which s t-.v him recdgiiizod
hnn fu'st; 1 mike up my opinion from his appearance, the color of
i liis hair and eyes. The three of us had not seen him ; some of the
three said, yonder ho is, w ithout his being pointed out ; ami wc all
recognized him. I might have seen hi nin 1526 ; it was either in
1825 or ’6.
38th Witness. Suniitt I Mangham— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett for
about four years ; recollect his features well ; I think prisoner is the
■ same man.
39th Witness. Joseph L. Barnett— l knew, in Gwinnett, a man
named E. IL; was not well acquainted with him ; 1 think prisoner
lias some of the featuros that I recollect of E. B. 1 would not say
he is the man, but I think he has the favor.
Cross-examined—l knew J. L. IL about as well as E. IL; if I
• was obliged to say between them, I should say it was Barber ; I
should think Barber a little the oldest ; 1 don’t think 1 have seen J.
L. B. since 1822, nor E. B. since 1823; 1 don’t think prisoner has
any features of J. L. B. One day last week 1 saw this individual
in a room, but expressed no opinion about it.
40th Witness. Philo P- Atwell— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett,from
! 1822 or '3, for about four years : 1 last saw him in Macon, in 1826 ;
I he had a wagon and team in Macon ; 1 believe prisoner is the same
; man; 1 was in Gwinnett when he was carried a prisoner, with his
, brother, from Upson ; 1 think they were hand-cuffed and chained
together.
Cross-examined—l did not see him for ten or eleven years after I
saw him in Macon ; I don’t know tl c Barber I knew had both his
oars on ; don’t reeollect his ear being off.
•11st Witness. 115 n. P- IToneycut— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett,
j about two years ; knew him well; wot ked with me awhile ; from
my recollection of him, I should take prisoner to be the same man.
Cross-examined-—I have ifot spoken to prisoner since I saw him
in Gwinnett : recollect no particular marks on E. IL; ho was not
i what yon would call bow-legged—a little inclined that .vay.
42.1 Witness. John Campbell— Knew a man in Gwinnett who
; went by tho name of E. IL; first saw him in tl.e spring of 1823; 1
think he left in the spring of 1826; was back in tho fall of same
: year ; I think 1 have a d.stinct recollection of his gepertd appear
ance ; I think prisoner is the same man ; 1 saw him frequently’;
cannot say I was intimate with him.
431 Witness. Robert Campbell— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett ; well
acquainted with him for about three years ; 1 recollect distinctly his
features and appearance; I think prisoner is the’same man ; saw
him in a light, when begot a cut on liis head ; it bled ; never exa
; mined the wound.
Cross-examined—The wound was back of the head ; 1 did not
' examino it ; know of no mark on him ; don’t recollect life size of
| his hands ; did not see him after he left Gwinnett till March, 1837.
44th W itness. Daniel 11. Dees— Knew E- B. in Gwinnett, in
1825, perhaps 1824 : recollect him distinctly; saw him in Bibb in
1827. or’B, with a wagon ; saw him there two or three times; I say
i prisoner is the same man.
45th Witness. Imri. 'Fttmlin— Knew E. B. in Gwinnett tro or
i three years ; was not much in his company ; saw him at different
i places ; and believe prisoner is the same man.
46th Witness. Isaac Tinney— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett, from
1824 to 1826; recollect him distinctly ; prisoner is tho man.
47(11 Witness. John Suddeth— Knew- E. B. in Gwinnett about
; four years ; recollect distinctly his features and appearance ; priso
j nor is the man.
48th Witness. Stephen Hill— Knew E. B. in Gwinnett about
' two years; know him, and distinctlv recollect his features and ap
j pearance ; prisoner is the man. Was present when my brother
1 Thomas bit one of prisoner’s fingers ; did not bite at off.
Cross-examined—l fought E. B. once, and bit him side of the
' face ; a little blood sorter riffled the skin.
49th Witness. William Berry— Knew E. IL in Gwinnett about
i two years ; l ecollect Ins features and appearance ; I take prisoner
111 be the man.
50th Witness. S'..Tones — Knew E. B. in Gwinnett, best part of
two years ; saw him pretty often ; recollects distinctly his features
and appearance : thinks prisoner is the gentleman.
51st \\ itness. liiehard Berry— Knew a man in Gwinnett nam
; ed E. B. about two years ; saw him frequently, and recollects his
features and appearance ; thinks prisoner is the same man.
■ Cross-examined—l think when I last saw him, in Gwinnett, was
in 1826 ; I saw him next here in Clinton, in April, 1837 ; he looks
I now pretty much as lie did then.
52d Witness. William Abbot— Knew a man named E. IL in
Gwinnett, from 182.2 to 1824: saw him frequently; when [saw
him in Lawrenceville last March, I thought that I knew him, and
thought that I knew him when I saw him here : I think prisoner is
the same n an.
Cross-examined—lie was sitting on liis creature at Lawrenceville,
just as be was going away ; I was told he was there, an 1 I pointed
him out ; I went up to Esquire Martin and asked him where he was
--I think I then pointed out prisoiier ; some person asked for my
name, and went and wrote it down; I don’t think 1 pointed out
Mr. Towles, but prisoner: I pointed to a gentleman and said that’s
i Elijah Barber; 1 received a subpoena from prisoner, and was sub
! poenaed by the State after I go there.
53d Witness. Samuel Fee— Knew a young man in Gwinnett, in
1823, named E. IL, the son of John IL, and knew him some two or
three years, and we lived and worked together; we were together
day' and nigh'.—ate, drank and slept together : E. B. had a peculiar
mark; I saw him washing in the mill-pond. *
(Here the fcntiiiioiiy tcnn of a it if are unfit for publication.)
I have a very distinct recollection of him;
he moved from Franklin to Gwinnett, and I believe prisoner is the
i very identical same man.
Cross-examined—l don’t recollect when I last saw him in Gwin
nett ; the next time 1 saw him was in Clinton, at Mrs. Bennett’s;
* * * I know his features very
well ; I would not receive any writing from him unless signed E. IL
This is the. identical same man ; I have not had any conversa
tion with him; I knew him as soon as I saw him here ; there were
two young men present when I saw him licic ; he would not look at
\ me ; I was just as sure, when I first saw him, that it was he, as lam
. now ; 1 heard him converse:; few words.
51th W itness. Allen Martin— Knew E. B- in Gwinnett, from
1823 to 1826, when he left theie. He and I worked together and
lived together at Bogan’s ; we were together at other places; ate
and slept with him; * * * the prisoner
is the same man ;*♦««( wils
-told to go to Sterling’s confectionary, by Mr. Roberts’direction,
and prisoner was the first man I saw there ; I said to him, “ how is
' it, Ligc?” He said I was mistaken; I told him “ 1 could not be
mistaken.” Mr. Towles s iid, “May be I’m B arber 1” I told him
I “No.” I then mentioned this mark, and prisoner said he would go
i into a room and be examined. He showed his legs, and 1 could not
; satisfy myself as t« the mark on liis leg, * *
* fie showed some letters on his arm, that I did not recol-
! Icct ; I am satisfied that prisoner is the same E. B.
Cross-examined—l knew prisoner as soon as I saw him ; I think
Mr. Towles was in the room, and had the same opportunity as mv
! self of seeing all that I saw- I said I thought that must be Barber,
for * * * * * ; I said there was a scar on
liis leg, from the bite of a rattle snake—on one side of his’leg.
«»***««
* He went off in 1826, and did not sec him again till
la t March ; 1 did not tell any body that lie was pointed out lo me ;
I was sent for logo and see prisoner; Gen. Gordon and Mr. Towles
were present when prisoner was examined.
55tli Witness. John liunkhy— l am the uncle of J. L. IL; pri
soner is not my nephew ; I came hero lo sec if prisoner was my
! nephew,’’and came with the view to aid and assist him ; I found it
was not he ; I conversed with him, and lie gave me no satisfaction;
I asked a few questions respecting my family, which he could not
1 answer, find told him he was not my brother’s son.
CroKs-exaniim-d-’-I had hut one conversation with him, and put
him but few questions; I heard liis uncle Slalter converse with him
and wtis convinced lie was not tbc genuine J, L. IL I made enqui
ries for him on my way here ; I camo here with a design to see him,
ami went to Macon for that purpose; prisoner sai lho had soiite
-rdutowledge ol liis uncle lames, ami that if 1 was James, I had fat-
1 toned so I e did not know me.
56th W itm s-. James Ihtnl.ley— l am the uncle of J. L. IL, son
ol W m. I). IL, .and knew him well; the prisoner is not my nephew:
had a convet salion with piisouer last spring; he did not knew me ;
I went to see him in the tavern here; he was asked if be knew me,
and called me by some other mime; he did not know me; lie asked
il 1 did not recollect Ininting land here, with him ; 1 told him no ; I
j told him J. L. IL went with me to bunt land ; he asked if 1 did not
recollect our meeting a man ; I replied Jesse and me might have met
I a good many men ; he asked mo if I did not recollect meeting a
i Mi. Woodward; 1 told him wo did meet such a man (me and
Jesse); he said wc met him going down tho hill here at town ; this
uas not so: we mot Woodward beyond Billingslca’s ; I asked
where we started Hom ; he had forgotten ; he could not rec licet
what sort of horse be rode; lie did not know where I lived; I lived
in this county, and J. L. IL was often at my house; prisoner is not
my nephew ; ho could tell me nothing at all.
( ross-examined---Prisoner insisted that wo hunted land together;
I denied il, and said J. L. IL and myself hunted land together; 1
i have never spoken to him since ; 1 sent for J. L. B. lo Milledgeville
jon liis i m a from New 5 ork. l’i isoner knew nothing about this,
j 57th Witness. John 11.-Moore— Knew J. L. IL; I do not be
lieve prisoner to be him ; I knew J. L. IL about six years; I think I
recollect J. L. B.’s features; 1 can see no resemblance to him in
prisoner.'
( ross-exani’med---! don't think I should forget a man 1 have
not seen in eight or ten years ; 1 had a short conversation with pri
soner at the spring term of this court; Major .Smith handed him a
pen, am! lie wrote his own name, but wrote it badlv ; I wrote Mrs.
1 Lowther’s name, and asked him if he knew that individual; lie re
fused to answer; he said he could read the name, but was not dis
posed to do so ; Sir. ltoqii£more gave him several other names to
read, but he did not read any ol them; he made some objections to
. the manner in which Mr. ( 'lower’s name was written, while looking
J at Mrs. Lowther’s name ; he said it had been some time since he
, had seen that person. Roquemore then wrote bis own name, show
; ed it, and asked him to read, and lie refused ; lie said he did not
' think that person was in the house ; lie was asked if bo knew me ;
I he said he did not ; he said ho ’was acquainted with Captain Moore,
i on the Pine lli Lo, and bis son Risdon; he said it seemed to him he
i knew a man by the name of Moore, that lived up about the Iltirri
i cane, but it had been so long he had forgotten him ; I have had no
other conversation with him; old Captain Moore did live on the
i Pine Ridge, and I lived in the Hurricane mj'self: my object was to
brit-g him to recollect me ; it was eleven or twelve years between
the intel view, and the time 1 last saw J. L. IL I had no conversa
tion with Roquemore previous to this ; I did not notice any other
person present at the time ; when Major Smith handed him the pen
| he told him not to go to sleep, but to go to practicing ; he did not
; write like a man in the habit of it, lie held liis pen awkwardly ; Ris
don Moore was in the habit of wagoning; the Hurricane is close bv
Billingslca’s ; a person might have lived near Billingslca’s, on either
side, and not in the Hurricane.
58th Witness. Isham Choat—Knew.J. L. B. well; overseed
for his step-father eight months, in 1823; I knew J. L. B. two
years afterwards; prisoner is not J. L. B.; I never saw prisoner till
about fourteen months ago ; prisoner did not know me ; he said my
name was Slatler; Mr. Livingston said, “ Choat, will you take a
drink?” Pi isoner then said, “ this is 7s7t«»t.” I had an interview
with piisouer, to sec if he was J. L. B. I took him out and asked
him about a circumstance that occurred at camp meeting while he
was there ; J. L. B. had left liis horse at the camp meeting ; some
rough words passed between him and Mr. Billingslea, at supper,
about it; I rose up and told them they should not fight till the com
pany was gone; Billingslea asked me to go with Jesse and get the
horse, which we did. I asked prisoner if he recollected the horse
|he rode back to the camp meeting. He could tell me nothing about
i the circumstances, and did not tell the name of the horse he had
I ploughed the whole summer, when lie did plough.
Cross-examined—Pi isoner could not tell me a single thing about
j the affair; he said he recollected going after the horse ; but could
: tell nothing till after I told it ; J. L. IL did not plough much ; never
! a week at a time ; two days was as much as he ploughed at a time ;
I think I had this conversation with piisoner after dinner; prisoner
j I think was sober; prisoner wen! in company with some ladies, and
! lie li ft his horse, and rode with them in the carriage.
59 h Witness. Spencer Thomas— Knew’E. IL in Upson county
abiut 1825, ’6 or ’7 ; saw him frequently ; I was present when he
was carried off towards Gwinnett ; 1 think E. B. came back again ;
I should say, to the best of my knowledge, prisoner is E. IL; at first
I did not recognise him; after conversing with him I thought it was
Cross-examined—l do not recollect telling the Clarks, an hour or
two afterwaids, that il was not Barber; prisoner caste up and said
that he understood that I knew the Barbers ; I told him I did ; I
told Chirk I did not know that I should take prisoner at that time
to be E. IL, but after conversing with him, 1 thought it was; piiso
i nor was better dressed, and had larger whiskers, at this interview
' than when I formerly knew him.
(iOth Witness. Thomas 11. Bruy—Knew J. 1.. B. very well for
! about three ye its before he was grown ; went to school with him
j three montls ; it was while his finger was sore ; it was bit off; I be
i lievc I played marbles with him everyday; I am fully persuaded
that prisoner is not Bunklcy ; I don’t recollect particularly his hand
writing, but 4 think he wrote a very good hand.
Cross-examined—l saw J. L. IL but a short time before he left
here, and recollect liis taking Skitter’s horse, and that lie left here
on that horse ; I saw prisoner in Macon, the day befoie he came
here ; this was about eleven years after J. L. B. went away ; 4 have
; endeavored to convince myself who he was by conversation ; 1 saw
him in my own shop, and had some conversation with him.
j Cross-examined by the State.—He could not tell me any thine
: that satisfied me he was Jesse L. Bunkley, but rather the reverse ;
in my shop I had some conversation other than about mending his
clothes; 1 asked him to show me the mole that had been spoken of;
it was no mole at all , it was the middle finger of J. L. B. that was
! bit off, on the left hand ; he was left handed.
61st Witness. Samuel Griswold—-Was acquainted with Jesse
i L. Bunkley about seven years; the prisoner is not, in my’ opinion,
Jesse L. Bunkley ; I lived in Clinton, and he was frequently here ;
I had a private interview with prisoner, to satisfy myself, and I ask
ed him a number of questions, which be said he did not recollect ; I
mentioned the names of the principal inhabitants of the place, and
he could not tell their names or occupations; he could not name the
merchants and mechanscs that I knew Jesse L. Bunkley was ac
quainted v.ith; he could not tell (he occupation of Mr. Weathers,
that J. L. B. dealt with ; he stated truly his residence ; he could_
not tell the residence of particular persons ; I think J. L. B. passed
the jail daily while it was building; prisonei could not tell who
built it ; I asked him who built the brick house and Mrs. Bennett’s;
he said Joneses, but could not tell which Jones; ho said he knew
i die school house, an.l went to school there, and that it had been
used as a church ; prisoner had been here a month before I con
versed with him.
Cross-examined—i have never had any other conversation with
him ; he was in custody, but not closely watched ; the school house
is in the vicinity of the church, he stated truly the name of the j
person who built the houses enquired of; James Jones built the
brick, and William Jones the wooden one.
62d Witness. Roger Macarthy—Was acquainted with Jesse L.
1 Bunkley from his childhood, till a few weeks before he went off;
| the families visited, and J. L. B. has been at my house ; the priso
! nor is by no means J. L. B.; he is as unlike him as can be ; 1 went
with Mr. to the Clinton jail ; prisoner did not know me, and
as soon as I saw him 1 knew he was not Bunkley ; I asked him
where his grand-mother liqed, when Bunkley left here; he said at |
Mrs. Williams’. She then lived near me, within 15.) yards, and J. [
L. B. visited her there. J. L. B. had light eyes, like Mis. Parrish,
fair hair, well made ; 1 asked prisoner but tew questions, I was so j
well satisfied that it was not J. L. IL, son of Wm. D.
Cross-examined—The ni meat I saw him, I knew he was not J. :
L. IL; ho appeared to be sick, and needed fire; it was in the jail ; j
I had never seen iiim before, and staid but a short time : he did not i
converse very freely with me ; 1 had not expressed my opinion that !
it was not be before I saw him ; J. L. B. went off for something '
about a horse ; he was a bad boy ; I knew nsthing of his trips off: ,
he would be taken for seventeen or eighteen; I do not recollect the i
precise time he went away; it is between ten and fifteen years
sine.: his departure ; 1 don’t lecohect any thins about J. L. B.’s fin
ger, except from rumor; I heard the report of his death, and also
of his life: I never heard of bis being alive till prisoner arrived
here; I recollected bis uncle’s going after the horse, and that Cap
tain Parrish bought him-
63d Yv itness. Jno. G. Park— Knew E. IL in Gv innclt in 1823,
’4,’5 and perhaps’26; saw him frequently, and he had business
Irequently with me, as a lawyer; he was frequently indicted and I
was his counsel. I was present when he was biought to Lawrence
ville, on a proclamation tor him and several others; E. B. was ar
rested, and I was employed to obtain a habeas corpus for him, and
discharged him. He was aftet wards brought, with Wm. 8., from
Upson ; E. B. was again discharged, and William committed and
convicted ; 1 think prisoneris E. IL ; that is E. B. I feel as confident in
swearing to his identity as to that of any individual I ever saw; I
came to this comity by r< quest, to see prisoner, and know if I would
identify him ; had before heard the rumor that J. L. B. had return
ed; I was confident, from rumor, that he was J. L. IL; 1 doubted
i very mitcli, from the lapse of time since I had seen him, whether I
j could identify Berber; I came with Dr. Brewster, and went to Air.
j Tonics’; wc had determined not to have prisoner pointed out to us;
! wc went into the store, and theie were several persons present ; we
went into an end room, in the wav, there were several individuals,
standing up, at my right, and behind one of them 1 sawand immedi
ately recognized prisoner, looking roiix.d at me; he took his seaton
the bed, in a dark coiner of the room ; I was sitting at the fire,ami
lie conversed with anothe'r man—his voice confirmed me in my
opinion. 1 tiled to get a full view of liis face and eyes, and he
avoided il, till I covered my face with my hand ; I conversed with
prisoner ; he came into the piazza ; he was asked if he had ever
seen me or Dr. Brewster; he said he thought he had seen Brewster,
and called him a Flewellen, but that he had never seen me; I re
marked to him if he was either E. B. or J. L. B. he ought to know
inc ; lie said lie didn’t th tik he had ever seen me before; I asked i
him when he left Georgia, and where ho went; lie said lie went west, j
and h said sometime in M ly next (1837) would be ten years since !
he lilt. The conversation was then intelrupled. I never saw J.L.!
B to know him: I have seen, prisoner two or three weeks ago, at
Milledgeville; 1 think prisoner is ol the same make, shape and
voice as the man 1 knew as E. B. I don’t recollect Elisha B. par
ticularly ; I knew most of the family—Elijah and William well.
Cross examined.—l think, and am indeed confident, that I saw pris
oner in Gwiimct’, at tho election, in October I .25 ; I saw him aftcr
ix arils either in lo2(>, /or in .»!illedgcville, driving a wagon ; 1 think
in '23 ; I did not sec him again till at Towes’. 1 only recollected to have
seen him in the back room and piazza; he may have walked out into
tnoj.ii'l. Had licaidlhat it was.l. L. IL; and E. B. From my knowl
edge of prisoner's countenance, notions and voice, I immediately recol
lected him. I know no particular marks about him, except that there
was a small mole or wart, on his cheek ; his teeth small and short. J don’t
recollect Mr. Towles am! prisonei's walking up to me, in the var.l ; I
was in the yard, at the end of the piazza, ami they camo to the end of
the piazza.
WITNESSES FOR THE PRISONER.---ar coxhext.
Is/ H'itmss—Liltleberrii Lucas.-Kuew J. L. 15 ; knew him from a bov,
to 17 or 18 years old. From my recollection, that prisoner is the sanie
man.
Cross-examined.—-I live about seven miles from Biliiimslea's ; 1 never
visited Billingslca’s family. Didn’t know Mrs. Lowther, till 8 or 10
yearsago, at a camp meeting, while she was a widow. I don’t recol
lect being asked, mi the exainin ition. if I knew Bunkley's mother.
I don’t lecollect saying that 1 didn't know Mrs. Lowther. J knew no
other lad, of J. L. B's size living in the same neighborhood. 1 don’t
know the names of Saintiel Cook’s sons, except an idiot. 1 knew old
Maj. Jesse Bunkley, and his family; and noticed J. L. B. about Clinton.
Don’t recollect the 1... in liis name. 1 only knew J. L. B. as a hoy,
about here; he was a wild hoy, ami I noticed him. 1 know’ Wm. More
land, and have known him 28 years ; 1 lived 13 years in the District,
with him; 1 might.have met him in the road and didn't know him. He
had whiskers, and I told him, at first, I didn’t know him. 1 merclysaid
in a joke, that. .dr. Hardeman must not examine me, as lie had done be
fore. Wm. Williams had a son named Wilie, he is all 1 recollect. 1
didn’t know Campbell Barton. Was not intimate with I. L. 15. ; be
had a full face,jaws sticking out, and no beard. His hair was lighter
than it is now ; his face was round ; don’t recollect the form of his nose;
think ho favored the Slattcis ; Hull tho most. Don't recollect J. L. B’s
mouth or lip. 1 never visited his family. Prisoner appears to be pretty
much the same as he Used to do ; except bis jaws ami beard ; liis jaws
mive shrunk. 1 never had any convetsation with J. L. 15. before be
went away. Don’t, know that Mrs. Lowther was married to Billingslea,
10 years ago. 1 moved from Jones about 15 years ago. I saw j. L.
B. the summer after 1 moved. J. L. IL was called a bad b«y, and 1
noticed him because 1 was acquainted with his connections.
27 /> itness—Charles McCardell. Knew J. L. 8., while a lad. I
believe prisoner to be the same, man , 1 can't swear, positively, to him.
| Cross exaviincd.— l moved to the river in 1818, ami was ent offinto
j Bibb, when the line was altered. Esquire Billingslea lived here, ami
I lived near Macon, say 12 miles from Clinton. 1 last saw J. 1.. B. in
■ 1821 or '22. Ho never visited me or im family, nor I him. 1 saw him
here, frequently. 1 xvas intimately acquainted with him. He was about
Il6or 17 years old. When I lived near him. he was 14 or 15 years old.
Re-examined by Prisoner.— 1 saw J. L. 15. a few times in iMacou,
and am satisfied that prisoner is Bunkley.
37 li'itness—-John Allen.—l lived in Clinton from 1810 to 1818; and
knew J. L. IL,as a boy. He staid a great deal in Clinton. Ido not
know his features. He resembles the Blatter family. 1 should think,
, from his likeness, that he was of the family.
Cross-examined.—l left here early in 1818, in February. There i»
great dissemblance among the family themselves. There js very little
favor between Mrs. Parrish ami Hull felattcr, very little indeed. 1 can
not remember thi* man, from his features, to lie.l. L. B.
FOR THE STATE.
64/A ll'itness—ll'ilkins Hunt.—Was acquainted with J. L. B. 1 came
in the Fall of 1814, and lived with Capt. Parrish. 1 knew him from
that time till 1823 or '24. Prisoner is not that man. 1 have a very dis
tinct recollection of J. L. 15.
Cross-examined.—l have had no conversation with prisoner. He
once took me for Mr. Jackson.
FOR DEFENCE.
4th Witness—Allen (>■ Famhrough.--\\-As seenK. IL in Gwinnett;
my acquaintance very limited; 1 thought 1 linuld know him again.
He was a rude bullying fellow. Never saw him in Upson. This was
in 1825 or 1826. 1 saw a man in the service, in Florida, that I thought
was the same man. 1 endeavored to ascertain if he was the same man
I e rather evaded my questions ; said he was born ami raised in Georgia;
but did not know where G wimiett was. 1 had this interview in Florida,
in the Spiingof 1836. My opinion was derived from his maimers and,
disposition, more than from any particular recollection of his appear
ance.
Cross-examined.-—! won't say the man 1 saw in Camp was E. B’
Prisoner’s carriage and motion answer pretty well for Barber ; but 1
th nk he was rathei larger; height corresponds. Tho man 1 saw in
Florida, was rather larger than prisoner; the man in Florida was called
Barber; and from this, and his deportment, 1 judged him to be E. B.
st/i H itness—ll m. McLendon.-- Wav partially acquainted with
E. IL ; have seen him frequently. 1 knew E. IL, 1 donolthink prison
er is the same man.
Cross-examined.—l know him in Upson in 1821 and’s. He came
to Upson in 1824, in the Spring. He was arrested there and taken to
Gwinnett. He recollects that Wm. B. went to Upson as Win. Ashley.
Don’t know that 1 had ever scon E. B. in Gwinnett. 1 think he was in
I paom, in 1825, more than a week ; 1 do not recollect tho time. 1 think
la. 15. was mere chuukey, than piisoner; of a square built, and down
look ; Don't reeollect the color of his hair; he had butlit.lle beard, it was
very thin. Knew Elisha Barker ; didn’t much resemble Elijah. Don’t
remember the color of his eyes, nor hair; first time I saw prisoner was
last October, at Stamper's, in Talbot county ; 1 happened there, and he
came to see Mr. Stamper. lam going on 25 years old. In 1825. 1
should suppose E. B. to be 23 or ’4 years old, from his appearance. The
last time 1 saw-him was in 1825, as well as 1 recollect.
6//t Witness—Daniel Culpcppe,r—l knew Jesse Bunkley; knew
nothing about the L.; knew him in Warren and in Clinton, several
years ; 1 knew him in Clinton 8 or 10 years ; 1 saw him, afterwards, in
Crawford county, in 1824 or’s; not positive which. Knew him and liis
family conneelions from his foatn es. I should sax- prisoner is the man.
Cross-examined.— 1 moved from Warren, in 1867 ; 1 lived about six
miles from J, L. B’s fathers ;he was then a sma l child. After 1 moved
to Jones, lived about the same distance,’six miles. Our families never
visited. Left Jones in 1822. Had no conversation with J. L 15., in iny
life. 1 know Charles Macarthy, Wilkins Hunt. Robert V. Hardeman ;
boys at thesame time. Never had any conversation with J. L. B. Col.
Hardeman’s hair was pretty white, when be was a boy ; and so was
prisoner's. He staid with the Blatters, in Crawford; 1 think Jesse was
in Knoxville, in 1824 or’sl think '25 ; ho associated, then, with Ned and
M in. Blatter, his relations, as 1 heard. 1 saw prisoner, sometime this
fall, in October or November, with the Blatters ; he ccmpanied with Billy
and Septimus. 1 picked him out,myself, and went therefor that pur
pose; 1 thought 1 knew him, as soon as 1 saw him. 1 went into the
crowd around him ; his features suited. I had bcoii told lie was on the
ground. 1 was Ityjhing about some time before 1 found him. There;
was a croVf d all’romid; 1 was alone; nobody talking witlime at the |
time. 1 h ive not said 1 didn’t know him. 1 saw Jefferson Skitter '
when he was asmll hoy ; 1 don't'recollect much about him; hardly re- I
collect him at all; 1 think he was younger than J. L. 15.
7th Witness—George S. Kennedy.— -Knew J. L. B. several years, in i
Clinton, about 5 yeais ; 1 saw him several times, afterwards, in Craw- !
ford, in 1825; knew his family connections. From my knowledge of
him, it is my opinion that prisoner is the man. 1 did not immediately i
recognize him, but did so in about 20 minutes ; 1 was sent for to go there, I
by Allen Marshall, but did not know why he sent foi me. I knew every |
man in the room, at first sight, but one , after sotting a few minutes, 1
thought 1 knew the man ; he smiled; 1 then felt pretty well convinced 1
that 1 recognized his features. 1 told Mr. Marshall 1 thought the man
wasßunkley, by the.upperpart of his face; When 1 saw him walk, 1 i
became- better convinced that it was Bunkley- I had seen him there in ;
1825, before he went away; he stayed with the Slatteis, there, in that I
year; Lemuel, James E-, William and Septimus Blatter ; they claimed ;
kin.
Cross-examined.—Did not know that prisoner was in Crawford; when
1 went to Marshal's 1 had not heard of it 1 think prisoner's nose and I
upper lip are like J. I. B's Aly recollection is, that J. L. B’s upper lip
was thin ; J. L. B’s face was then much fuller, than at piesent. He was |
inclined to be fleshy; not quite as tall, as he is now. 1 think his hair is
now blacker; did not notice the color of his eyes ; his brows were heavy; I
don't think more difference in the change of his hair, than Mi. Harde
man’s, in the same time ; there is about as much change in the one, ns
the other.
Bth Witness. John T. Patterson— Knew J. L. B. in 1815 or
’l6; moved into Jones in 1817, and knew him till 1825; had not '
seen him for some time before he went away ; he was a noted boy !
and saw Esquire Billingslea drive him to school. 1 think prisoneris
the same man ; can see the family features, and from his ways and
manners, 1 think it is J. L. B.
Cross-examined—l lived about eleven miles from town ; never
visited the family, nor they me ; i was Deputy Sheriff, and had to j
visit the town pretty often; knew him very well; I knew John I
Todd, and have seen Mr. Hardeman, Todd and Bunkley in town, j
while boys; never saw Todd working on a chimney ; didn’t recol
lect his younger brothers.
9th Witness. Il illiam Mizell— Knew J. L. B. well ; knew him
five or six years; first knew him in 1815 or’l6 ; 1 oversaw for his
grandmother; 1 knew him till he went away; from my acquain
tance I think prisoner is the man.
Cross-examined-—Tn 1815 or ’l6 J. L. B. was about twelve or
thirteen years old ; I lived five or six miles from Clinton one year;
I lived five years about six miles from Clinton ; 1 visited the family
of Air. Lowther occasionally ; when Bunkley and myself met wc
generally shook hands.
10th Witness. Edward C7«ri—Became acquainted with J. L.
B. in 1818 or ’l9, and knew him till 1825; we were intimate ; he
and my brother were intimate ; I saw him at Augusta for about two
days. To the best of my recollection, I think prisoneris J. L. B.
Cross-examined—-! never lived in Clinton; lived about eight
miles from ('liuten ; never visited his father’s, nor they mine; don’t
rccolle :t that Bunkley’s linger was bit.
llih Witness. Isaac E. Bower— l went to school with J. L.
15. when quite a small bov, in this place ; in 1836 I went to Arkan
sas, and at Helena I heard that J. L. 15. was there; 1 went to see
him, and was introduced to prisoner as Jesse Bunkley.
Ci oss-examined—l did not recognise any feature of J. L. B. I
did not recollect his features ; I was at school with J. L. B. but one
year ; I did not recollect hew J. L. B. looked ; prisoner was then
doing business lor a man named Palmer ; when 1 first met him he
was driving a dray with bacon on it.
12th Witness. 11 arris Gresham— l was in Court when Air. Wil
lingham was sworn; lie said he was coining to sec Barber; that he
had a large scar on his foot, and that he should know him : he des
cribed Barber as about the height of pi isoner; that he was heavy
built, and a little inclined to be bow-legged, and that he would weigh
160 pounds. He staled that Barber had a scar below his knee from
a rattlesnake bite: that lie would know him by the scar: Hill
said he would know him, fol he had fought him, the first man, and
bit him on the jaw. 1 allude to young Willingham.
I'lth Witness. James I’,. Slatler—-Kww j. L. B. in Crawford:
went frequently to my father’s: «e have been often together, and
■-laid in the same, room together wo called each oilier cousins : I
knew him in 1824 and ’25. I don’t know when he left here. Pri
soner is the man. lie had scars on him at that time : I have seen
some of them, but 1 don’t know him from scars, but from features.
I hoard the evidence about the peculiar mark referred to by a pre
vious witness: it was not so when he staid nt my father’s : in 1825
Jesse Bunkley had * * * * j | l(lve examined that
particnlaily since, and am convinced that if lam Slalter, he is
Bunkley.
Cross-examined-—Don’t know that I ever saw him before 1824 :
don’t know how long he was in Crawfotd in 1824: I am not posi
tive as to the time he staid there: not mitcli attention paid to him : I
was a good deal in his company ; don't know where he went from
there; I noticed him, but paid but little attention to him, except his
frolics ; he was theie several times, the latter part of 1824 and first
part of ’25 ; he would be gone two or three days at a time, and re*
turn; don’t recollect when he left there in ’25 ; I sometimes went'
with him on his trips to Knoxville; his horse was faster than mine,
and he would sometimes go ahead of me ; did not sec him again till
six or eight weeks ago, in Crawford county ; knew him as soon as I
I saw him ; I called him by no name when lie first got there ; didn’t
know J. L. B. was in the county; prisoner came up and shook my
hand, and called me by name; I said nothing for some minutes; said
afterwards, I presumed he was Jesse IL; I think his nose a little
longer, and he a little taller than in 1825; think his lip a little thin
ner, his hair but very little darker—a shade. J. L. B.’s face was
' fuller in the cheeks, and beardless; don’t recollect saying, in Knox
ville, that I recognized him by a circumstance he related ; I first
t bought that when lie came here be was ;m impostor, lint that I should
i know him if I saw him ; I said in Knoxville that I did not know liinF
I when I first saw him; I say 1 did not know him as soon as I saw
I him; I did not immediately make myself known to him ; it was be
; tween half an hour and an lioui before 1 made myself known to him.
The reason, I think, there is a difference in the appearance of his
nose, is that liis checks were formerly fuller, and have shrunk.
( Coiiclimion in our ns.cl.)
r i’ WT Y-FIF TII COft O S<F SS-"Sccond Session.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
Tuesday, Jan. 2, 1838.
The question pending being on the resolution of Mr. Daw
son calling on the Secretary of War for certain information in
relation to the Cherokee Indians, (given at length in last even
ing’s Globe.)
Mr. E.'crett submitted the following amendment thereto:
“And that the President be requested to lay before this
House copies of all documents relating to the regulation of the
late treaty with the Cherokee Indi ms, and of all communica
tions of the Cherokee Indians relative thereto.”
After some briefobservations from Mr. Dawson on the re
solution,
Mr. Wise wished to ask whether a report bad not been til
ready made by commissioners appointed by the Executive.—
He understood that at least a thousand cases of fraud had
been made out, but which had never been reported to the
House, lie said he gathered his information from an agent,
recently returned from among the Oterokees, whom he knew
to be a gentleman, and any statement be made respecting those
oppressed people might be safely ielied upon as correct. Air.
W. then alluded to the practice of making citizens of foreign
ers, whose views were frequently inimical to our own, and ask
ed upon what principle of justice the Government refused to
grant the prayer of the Cherokee Indians, who wished to be
come naturalized. Thus (said Mr. W.) they might be per
mitted to remain on the land of their forefathers, enjoying all
the benefits of our institutions. As a further reason why their
wish should be granted, Mr. W. adverted to their high state
of civilization. lie I bought it highly desirable that the report
of the agent recently arrived from the Cherokees should be
made to the House, in addition to the former information.
Mr. Dawson had no objection whatever to such a course.—
The object of his resolution was simply to ascertain the exact
J state of afl’airs at that time in relation to the treaty, and to lay
j all the information before the House.
Air. Wise proposed to amend the resolution by adding to
j the end thereof: “also, if any report has been made by the
agent lately' sent io the Cherokees, and if not incompatible
with the public interest, that he communicate said report to this
House;” which modification was accepted.
Air. Ilolsey bad no desire to enter into a debate on this sub
ject, but some observations, made by the gentleman from Vir
ginia, made it his duty to say a few words in reply. That
gentleman had spoken of the Cherokees as an “oppressed peo
ple.” Without going into any argument on the subject, he
would simply allege, that they were within the jurisdiction of
the State of Georgia, and for her policy, Georgia held herself
responsible to none but God and her conscience. When the
gentleman spoke so strongly and feelingly about oppression,
jhe evidently had his eye fixed on the policy of Georgia. He
' (Hr. II.) would repel the charges an! insinuations thrown out
' against the State which he had the honor of representing. He
■ would tell him that Georgia would stand upon
■ rights, and would never reHrrqnrslTThcTn: Tie would tell him
that the people of Georgia would never consent to have na
turalized Indians among them, who, civilized as they were said
to be, were not fit to associate with free born citizens of the U.
States. What, he would ask, were they to have a nation of
senii-barharous people thrust upon them, and fastened forever
upon the jurisdiction of Georgia? That policy was one which
would be repelled at till hazards ; and her people would never
submit to have a set of harpies forced upon her, to prey upon
her substance. Whenever such an attempt should be made, it
would meet with a determined resistance.
Air. Wise was of opinion that the gentleman, in his remarks
had exhibited a great deal of unnecessary zeal about Georne
as, in his observations on the oppression of the Indians,
alluded to the General Government, and not to the State t.f
Georgia. He bad not “the policy' of Georgia.in his eye,” but
the Legislative and Executive branches of the General Gov
ernment, which were the oppressors of the Indians, and bv
w hose officers a treaty had been forced upon them. Yes, if
they would give him but twelve honest men of the State of
Georgia, he would prove it by that jury' that the treaty had
been forced upon lite Cherokees in the face of the officers of cur
own standing army, and thus incurring the liability of a war.
Air. W. then made some allusions to the former and present po
licy of Georgia. He contended that notwithstanding w liat
had been said by' the member from that State, about the resi-t
--ance which would be made to any attempt lo naturalize the
Cherokees, it was his conviction that there was no lawyer in
Georgia who would deny' the right of the General Govern
ment to accomplish it. In bis opinion, the Government had
just as good a right to make an Indian a citizen, as an Irish
man ; and if they were made citizens, it would be no dispar
agement to the citizens of Georgia. They' had now' in the city
a Georgian, who was Secretary of State; and they had, also,
an Indian from Georgia of the Cherokee tribe, named John
Ross, who would, at any time, catnpare an intellect and moral
honesty w ith John Forsyth. He wished to know why such
Indians as these were not as eligible to become citizens as the
hordes of foreigners from the old w orld. The Cherokees had
assisted in fighting the battles of our country, and had fought
side by side w ith the w hite man in the struggle for her liberties;
and what reason could be assigned why they should not share
in its beneficial results?
Air. Glascock regretted that any unnecessary discussion had
arisen on the resolution offered by his colleague. He under
stood the motives of his colleague were simply to put the
House in possession of the instiuction which was needed, and
to let the people of Georgia know what they might expect
from the General Government in relation to the fulfilment of
the treaty, and their peculiar situation. He regretted that his
colleague should have deemed it necessary to allude to the re
marks of the gentleman from Virginia, (Air. Wise;) but as the
policy of Georgia had been attacked, he would observe that
Georgia had assumed a certain line of conduct in relation to
the Cherokees; and she would, at all hazards, pursue that po
licy. It seemed to him, that il the gentleman had any mea
sure to propose in relation to John Ross, or the naturalization
of the Indians, the most proper course would be to bring in a
special bill for that purpose, as it was totally irrelevant nttd un
connected with the present question. With regard to the in
tellect ol John Ross, he was willing to admit that he was
a man of excellent judgment; but w hen an attempt was mace
to compare him with the Secretary of State, hethoughtit a
most extraordinary comparison, coming from a man of such
discernment as the gentleman from Virginia.
But the people of Georgia were anxious to know what
course the General Government intended to pursue, in order
that they might take their own measures accordingly. The
treaty having been made, Georgia expected all the facility in
the power of Government to carry it into effect, and that all
the requisite assistance would be granted by the Secretary of
War.
1 be gentleman, talked about fraud and oppression ; but he
would ask him it this were the proper occasion for such a
(h.uge, now that the treaty had received the sanction of both
Houses, and become the law of the land? If he recolhcted
i ight," the gentleman It vm \ ii ginia himself voted in favor of
the iraaty.