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TTTT! ATLANTA GEORGIAN AND NEWS
DIAGRAM OF COURTROOM WITH FRANK TRIAL IN PROGRESS
Continued From Page 1.
O’clock Sunday morning?—A. I was
still there.
Q. Where did you go from there?
—A. I took the police to the pencil
factory, where they had been called.
Q. What did you do then?—A.
After a negro let us in I went down
into the basement with the police
x and found the body.
Present as Starnes Phoned.
Q. Were you present when Detec
tive Starnes called someone over the
telephone?—A. Yea.
Q. What time was it?—A. About
6 or 5:30 Sunday morning
Q. Do you know who he called?
*—A. No.
Q. What did he say?—A. I don’t
recall exactly, but in substance he
was asking some one to come to the
factory. I heard him say, "If you
will come 1 will send an automobile
for you.” He turned to me and asked
me if I would go to Mr. Frank’s
home and get him. He gave us the
address and Detective Black went
with me. Detective Black went to
the door. I won’t be sure whether
he knocked or rang the bell. Mrs.
Frank answered the door. She had
on a heavy blue bathrobe. We asked
if Frank was there, and h© came
through the curtain into the recep
tion hall.
Q. Was he dressed for the street?
—A. Yes, with the exception of col
lar and coat.
Q. Can you tell exactly what he
had on?—A. A pair of shoes, blue
trousers, w’hite pleated shirt t and
suspenders.
Neither Answered Frank.
Q. What was said?—A When
Frank came in he went directly to
Black. He asked him. Has anything
happened at the factory?’ Black did
not answer him, and. turning to me.
he asked the same question. 1 did
not answer.
Q. What else did he say?—A He
asked, "Did the nightw'atchman tel
ephone you anything had happened
at the factory?"
Q. What else?—A. Black did not
answer him then, but told him he
had better come to th e factory.
Q. What did Starnes say to Frank
over the phone besides what you
have already told?
“I object," said Attorney Rosser,
"on fhe ground that it is essentially
a leading question."
"You will have to put the question
differently," said Judge Roan to Mr.
Dorsey.
Tells of Phone Talk.
Q. Detail, now, what Mr. Starnes
said first.—A. M r. Starnes was talk
ing to someone over the telephone. I
won’t be sure whether he told him
who it was or not. He asked this
party he was talking to to come to
the factory. He said if he w T ould. he
would send an automobile'’ for him
With that he turned to me and asked
me to go to Frank’s house and get
him.
Q. Did you hear anyone else call
from the factory?—A. Soon after we
reached the pencil factory, about 3 30
o’clock, I was up in the office with
Policeman Anderson and Newt Lee.
Andersen was trying to get some
one over the phone. I don't know
who it was.
Q. What else happened at Frank s
home?—A. T think he asked his wife
for his collar and coat.
Q. ’Was that all?—A. All I remem
ber.
"Your honor,” said Mr. Dorsey, "he
has clearly overlooked something. Can
I direct his attention to it?"
Frank Recalled a Dream.
"How do you know it?’’ interrupted
Rosser.
"I have his testimony before the
Coroner’s Jury and 1 have talked to
him." said Dorsey.
"Oh. Lord," growled Rosser as he
sat down.
Q. What w'aa said about a dream?—
A. Mr. Frank said something about
dreaming or hearing the telephone
ring during the night.
Q. Was anything said about
whisky?—A. Yes;\>Mr. Frank said he
had not had breakfast. He thought
he would like to have a cup of cof
fee. Detective Black said a drink of
whisky might do him some good.
Mrs. Frank answered that Mrs. Se-
llg had been 111 with acute indigestion
and had used all of the whisky in
the house.
Q. How was Frank’s voice that
morning?—A. He was nervous.
Q. What about his voice? Was it
fine?—A. Yes. it was fine; somew’hat
like a woman's. He asked questions
rather abrupt, right off the reel. His
questions were Jumpy.
Appeared Very Nervous.
Q. What was his appearance when
you first saw him?—A. He was rub
bing his hands and was extremely
nervous.
Q. Was his hair combed or tous-
sled?—A. It was combed.
Q. What was the conversation on
the way to the factory?—A. Black or
myself—I don't remember which-—*
asked him if he knew a little girl
named Mary Phagar.. H© asked if
she worked at the pencil factory and
we told him we thought she did. He
said he would have to look on his
pay roll to see if she did; that he
didn’t know many of the girls there
and that h© never went out Into
the factory among them much. We
suggested that we had better go by
the undertaking establishment and
let him see the body.
Q Describe how you found the
body?—A. The room was dark. Un
dertaker Gheesling went back of the
body and turned on the light. The
head of the dead girl w r as toward the
wall. Ghesling took her fac© In his
hands and turned It toward us. Mr.
Frank had been behind me as we
entered the room, but when Ghes
ling turned the girl’s face to me I
looked around and Frank was going
out of the room
Didn’t See Her Face.
y. How long did he have to see the
face?—A. He didn’t have any time,
for when her face was turned to the
light he had stepped outside the
room.
Q Did you ask him any questions?
A. Mr. Rlack asked him If he recog
nized the body. He said if her name
was Mary Phagan h» could tell
whether she worked at The factory by
looking over his pay roll.
Q. What was his attitude at the
undertaker’s establishment?—A. He
8till appeared nervous
Q How?—A Well, he stepped live
ly and moved quickly.
Frank sat passive during these
questions, his expression an enigma.
UY TO DIAGRAM
His wife and mother on each side of
him appeared weary.
Frank Looked at Books.
Q. What did Frank do when they
got to the factory ?-^A. Frank went to
the office and unlocked the safe. He
got a book and ran his hand down
a column and said: "Yes, Mary Pha
gan worked here; If I am not mistaken
she was here Saturday and drew her
pay." He said It was some time a
little after 12 o’clock. He asked us
If w'© didn’t find a pay envelope near
her body We told him no.
Q. What was the time exactly, ac
cording to Frank?—A. He Just said
it was something a little after 12.
Q. What was his manner?—A. He
was nCrvous and quick.
Q. What was done about running
the elevator?—A. I don’t remember
exactly who said It, but some one
suggested that we see where the girl
was murdered. Frank went out to the
switchbox and opened it, and after he
had turned on a few things the ma
chinery began to run.
Tried to Start Elevator.
Q. Did anyone ask him about the
switch box not being locked?—A. He
said the insurance company had him
stop locking it, saying it was agains*
the law r .
Q. Did Fi*ank run the elevator?—A.
He pulled the rope to start It, but it
would not move. He called Darley
and the elevator was started after
some little delay.
Q. Did anyone comment on the
murder?—A. I think Mr. Frank said
Darley had worked Newt Lee and
that If anyone could get anything out
of him It was Darley.
Q. What else happened?—A. Frank
said: ”We had better nail the back
door, Dftrley."
Q. What was done?-r—A. Frank and
Darley went to nail the back door.
Q. What did you do then?—A. Frank
said: "I guess we had better put In
a new tape. Darley." He then took
the tape oui of the box and remarked.
"They are all punched all right.”
Frank Brought New Slip.
Q Where whs Newt Lee?—A. Lee
was right behind me, handcuffed.
0 Where was Darley?—A. He was
right there.
Q What happened next?—A. Mr
Frank went to hit* office, brought out
a new slip. He took out the old slip
and wrote on it April 26. 1913.
Q. What did he do with it?—A. He
folded it once and went into his office.
Q. Did you see that slip?—A. Yes, I
glanced at it. The first punch was
6:01 and the second at 6:32. There
did not appear to be any skip in it
Q Did you hear Frank say anything
about something to eat?—A. Yes. sev
eral times he said he wanted to get a
cup of coffee.
Attorney Rosser objected.
Didn’t Notice His Eyes.
"Maybe several wanted a drink—1
expect they did," he said.
Solicitor Dorsey continued.
Q. Did 5 3u notice Frank’s eyes dur
ing the stay In the factory?—A. No.
Q. How long did you and Frank re
main in the factory?—A. I should say
something more than an hour.
Q. Where did you go?—A. In the
automobile with Lee. Darley. Black
and Frank to the police station.
Q Was anybody under arrest?—A
Lee.
Q Was Frank?—A. I didn’t consider
him so.
Q. What happened at the station"—
A They took Frank up to Chief Lan-
forri’s office
Q. Did you see Frank do any writ
ing?—A. I paw Newt Lee write, but
not Frank.
Dorsey again wanted to refresh
Rogers’ memory about his testimony
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before the Coroner’s Jury. Rosser
again objected. Judge Roan declared
the witness could not be led.
Q. Did you see the officers do any
thing with Frank and Lee at the sta
tion?—A. I saw- them take Mr. Frank
and Lee up the stairs
Q. Did you p*ee Frank with a pencil 1
—A. I can’t pay that 1 did or did not.
I was around there so much and saw
so much.
Q. What was Frank’s attitude at th«
station?—A. He appeared nervous, as
he had all the morning.
Q. Did you or not have occasion to
observe Frank's hand at the police
station?—A. No, sir. I did not.
Rosser Takos Witness.
Mr. Rosser then took up the cross-
examination.
Q. You never saw Frank before that
morning.—A. No.
Q. You don’t know’ whether w'hat
you considered his nervousness was
natural to him or not?—A. No.
Q. How long after you had knocked
at Frank’s door was It before Frank
came?—A. About a minute or two.
Q. You went to the factory with the
police?—A. Yes.
Q You had som^ trouble In finding
whether the child was black or w’hite?
—A. Yes.
Q. Didn’t someone have to pull
down her stocking and look at the
fle«*h before they could tell her color?
—A. Yes, I believe so.
Tells of Victim’s Face.
Q. Was there dirt on her face?—A.
Yes.
Q. Was there dirt ir> her mouth?—
A. Yes. and some in her eyes.
Q. How long were you at Frank's
home?—A. About fifteen minutes.
Q. It took that long for the thing*
you have told us to happen?— A. Yes.
Q. Are you sure of it?—A. Pretty
sure.
Q. You don’t know’ what time it wa?
when you went to the undertaker’s 0
You don’t know whether It wap 7
o’clock or not, do you?—A. I can’t be
sure of that. I am trytng to refresh
my memory as best I can.
Q. Did you swear to that con versa,
tion with Frank about the pay envel
ope at the Coroner’s inquest?—A. Yes
I said something about :t.
Q. Are you as sure of that as the
other things you have sworn to this
morning?—A. I am sure I said some
thing about it.
Visit to Frank’s Home.
Q. Was anything said about a little
drink doing you all good?—A. Yes.
When we were at Frank's home Black
said something about a drink. Mrs.
Frank called to Mr«. Sellg and she
said there was r.o whisky in the
house; that Mr. Selig had an attack
f of indigestion the night before and
used it all.
Q. When you were at the under
taker’s. how did you get to the chap
el—A. We went dow n a long corridor.
Q. Did you know that Ghesling,
landing in front of the corpse, saw
Frank looking at it?—A. No.
Q. Then you won’t say that Frank
didn’t see the young girl’s face?—A
I do say that it would have been im
possible for anyone to see her face
when It was turned to the wall, and 1
can swear that no one but Mr. Ghes
ling and I went up to the corpse.
Might Have Seen Body.
Q. Wasn’t it possible that Frank
saw the body and the face at the
* .-amt time you did and turned his
head at the same time you did?—A.
Yes, I suppose so.
Q. Did Frank have any trouble un
locking the safe at the office? Did he
w’ork the combination the first time?
—A. Yes, without any trouble.
Q. Mr. Frank tried the elevator and
couldn’t?—A. Yes.
Q. He called Mr. Darley?—A. Yes.
Q Did it run smoothly when it
started?—A. Yes.
Q Did It stop wMth a Jerk tvhen it
reached the bottom?—A. No; it just
stopped.
No Stains in Sawdust.
Q. Was there blood on the sawdust
where you found the body?—A. No;
we couldn’t find any.
Q. Was there blood anywhere?—A.
Yes; some on her underskirt.
Q Was there blood on her head?—
A. Yes, there was some dry blood
maLed In the hair.
Q. Was there blood running any
where on the body?—A. I don’t re
member any.
Q. Who turned her over?—A. Ser
geant Dobbs. I believe.
Q. Were you there w’hen they found
the shoe?—A. No.
Q. Were the shoe and hat found that
morning?—A. They w’ere not before 1
left to get Grace Hicks to identify
the body.
Wont to Station With Party.
Q. How did it happen that Frank
went with you to the police station?
Did he volunteer to go? A. I don't
know exactly. He went along with
the party without any hesitancy.
The question was interrupted by a
whispered conference between Ros
ser and Arnold; then Rosser con-
tin tk d.
Q When Mrs Frank was tele
phoning to Darley. how far w-ere you
from the telephone? A. About 6
feet.
The re-direct examination w’as be
gun by Dorsey:
Q. Could you tell by a glance at
the hair whether the girl was w’hite
or not? A. Yes, you couldn't tell oy
the face, but it was evident it w’as
the hair of a white girl.
Couldn’t Have Seen Face.
Q. Did you say Frank did or did
not see that girl’s face in the under
taking establishment?
"I object," said Rosser.
"You can ask only what opportu
nities he had to see the face," an
swered Judge Roan.
A. He couldn’t see it because her
body was not lying so that >e could.
Rosser said; "Mr. Rogers didn’t
you tell me that you didn’t know
where Mr. Frank was w’hen you were
looking at the girl’s face?’’—A. Yes;
but he couldn't have seen it. unless
h© w’as standing near me, and he
wasn’t standing near me.
Dorsey asked: "Did Frank ever go
into the room in which the body
was?"—A. To the%est of my knowl
edge he did not. He went in the di
rection of the toilet, or a room which
1 took to be a toilet.
Grace Hicks on Stand.
Rogers was then excused, and Miss
Grace Hicks went on the stand. She
was questioned by Dorsey.
Q. Did you know Mary Phagan?
At this point members of the jury
asked for water and while it was
being secured for them. Frank leaned
over and held a whispered conversa
tion with Rosser.
The question was repeated.
A. Mighty near a year. f
Q Where did you know’ her?—A. At
the National Pencil Factory.
Q. Did you identify her body the
morning after the crime?—A. Yes
Knew Her By Hair.
ou know her?—A. By-
looking at her
poke in a very soft
vi>- t >,ie appeared about 16 y’ears of
age. She wore a white dress w’ith
light blue ribbons around her neck
and elbow’ sleeves.
Q How was she when you saw her?
—A. She was covered except her head.
Q. How did you know her?—A. By
her hair. It was so long and pretty.
Q. Was she pretty?—A. Yes.
Q. Where did you work?—A. In the
metal room
Q. What did you do first when you
went to the factory each day?—A.
Punched the clock.
At Factory Every Day.
Q. How often was Mary at the fac
tory?—A. Nearly every day.
Q. Where was Mary’s work place?—
A. Right next to th e dressing room.
Q. Did you see where the blood
was?—A. Yes.
Q. A person going from the office
back to the rear of the second floor
would have had to pass the dressing
room, the place near where Mary
Phagan worked, wouldn’t they?—A.
Yes.
Q. Did Frank pass there every day?
A. Almost every day. He would come
back two or three times a day to see
how the work was going on.
Q. When was Mary at the fac
tory last to work?—A. The Monday
before April 26.
Saturday Regular Pay Day.
Q. Why didn't she work that week?
—A. The metal had given out.
Q. Where was the metal kept?—A.
In a little closet under the stairway.
Q. When was the regular pay day?
—A. Saturday at 12.
Q. Was anyone paid off Saturday.
April 26?—A. Most of them were paid
oi the Friday night before, as Satur
day was a holiday.
Dorsey then had the witness point
out the machinery where Mary Pha
gan worked on the second floor, as
shown on the Bert Green diagram.
Then Rosser took the witness on
cross-examination.
Attracted by the report that the
State intended to Introduce its most
important witnesses during the day, a
larger crowd than that which clam
ored for admission on the first two
days of the trial besieged the court
house Wednesday morning as* the time
for the resumption of the Frank trial
approached.
That a sensation is to be sprung by
the defense by the production of the
mysteriously missing ribbon and flow
ers from the hat of the murdered girl
was repeatedly indicated by Attorney
Rosser's line of questioning Tuesday
and tho afternoon before.
Beginning with Mrs. J. W. Coleman,
mother of Mary Phagan, the attorney
for Frank interrogated every witness
who saw the girl alive or dead that
day in regard to the ribbon and flow
ers.
Mrs, Coleman said that the ribbon
and flowers were on the hat when
Mary left home. Newt Lee said that
he had seen no sign of the missing
trimmings. The testimony of Ser
geant L. S. Dobbs was the same. De
tective Starnes, when he was turned
over for the cross-examination, made
.the same admission.
It Is believed that Rosser will pro
duce the ribbon and will attempt to
establish that it was found in a place
throwing suspicion upon the negro
Conley.
Frank was brought to the court
house at about 8 o’clock Wednesday
morning. There was no change in
his demeanor or physical appearance.
If the trial has been any strain upon
him he does not display the effects.
He was dressed in the dark mohair
suit he wore Tuesday. He greeted
his friends cheerily and spoke con
fidently of acquittal.
The Jurors, sleeping In three rooms
at the Kimball House, spent a rest
less night. They appeared rather
fagged w’hen they were brought into
the courtroom at 9 o’clock.
First Witnesses Unimportant.
Attorneys for the State have an
nounced that the witnesses called
Monday and Tuesday were only for
the purpose of starting the presenta
tion of evidence against Leo Frank
right from the opening incidents of
the day that the murder was corqmit-
ted, and that they were important
oily in so far as they assisted in mak
ing a continuous chain of evidence,
and as they made here and there
statements which might be Interpret
ed as damaging to the accused.
Working on the foundation laid b3 r
Tuesday’s testimony, Solicitor Dorsey
was understood to be prepared Wed
nesday and Thursday to introduce
witnesses w’ho would swear tfiat the
red stains found in two places on the
second floor were splotches of blood
and not aniline or any other color
ing stain; also that the bloody finger
prints on the rear door of the base
ment w’ere the finger-prints of Leo
M. Frank.
City Detective J. N. Starnes Just
before he left the stand Tuesday
night Identified pieces of wood as
pieces he had chipped from the rear
door of the factory. There were fin
ger-prints easily distinguishable upon
them. A finger-print expert w r as in
the employ of Solicitor Dorsey for
some time during the investigation of
the murder mystery and was named
among the State’s witnesses.
The red-stained chips from the fac
tory floor were sent to Dr. Claude E.
Smith, city bacteriologist, for analy
sis. Dr. Smith also is one of the
State’s witnesses and was expected to
be called Wednesday or during Thurs
day’s forenoon session.
Writing Pad Evidence?
It W’as understood when the trial
opened Wednesday morning that De
tective Starnes would be recalled to
the stand by the Solicitor to tell of
finding on a shelf just outside Frank’s
office writing pads of paper similar to
that on which the notes found by
Mary Phagan's body were written.
If the Solicitor did not alter his
plans meantime. J. M. Gantt, dis
charged factory employee, was to be
the next witness on the stand. Gantt
told at the Coroner’s inquest that
Frank appeared nervous and appre
hensive when he (Gantt) w’ent to the
factory at 6 o’clock Saturday night to
get some shoes he had left In the
building.
Starnes was on the stand practical
ly all of Tuesday afternoon. While
the direct examination was In prog
ress the detective told of his part in
scouring the pencil factory for evi
dence.
One of his statements on which the
State is relying to establish that
Frank acted and talked in an incrim
inating manner the morning the body
was found consisted in his testimony
in regard to a telephone conversation
which he said he had with the fac
tory superintendent that morning.
Starnes, under the examination of
Dorsey, said that he had been very
guarded w’hen he called up Frank
that morning and had merely said
that he desired Frank’s presence at
the factory. He denied that he had
mentioned the fact that a girl had
be«n killed.
Claim Frank Knew.
It Is the purpose of the State to
seek to establish that Frank, without
being told of w’hal had happened, had
made remarks to the officers when
they came for him which Indicated he
was not unaware that a girl had been
murdered In his factory.
The main points of Starnes’ testi
mony were:
That he had discovered stains re
sembling blood In two places on the
second floor of the factory.
That Frank acted nervous when
brought to the factory.
That Frank made a strange remark
to Foreman M. B. Darley that he "had
more than one suit of clothe?.” refer
ring to the fact that he had on a
different suit than the one he wore the
day before.
That Lee appeared composed w’hen
questioned Sunday by the detectivea
That he witnessed the new night
watchman In the pencil factory make
a complete punch of the time clock
covering a period of twelve hours in
five minutes.
Unaer Kossers cros»s-examination
Starnes admitted that It was practi
cally Impossible for him to remember
the exact w’ords he used in certain
parts of his testimony at the Cor
oner’s inquest. This admission wag
obtained by Rosier to show’ that
Starnes’ memory in respect to the tel
ephone conversation with Frank could
not be regarded as any more reliable.
Rosser brought out that Starnes failed
to mention at the Coroner’p inquest
either the matter of the telephone
conversation or of the alleged conver
sation he held w’ith Frank the morn
ing of the murder.
Starnes also admitted that the
finger-print chips w’hlch w’ere showm
him by Solicitor Dorsey rmght not be
the same chips he had taken from tho
rear door of the bawment. as tho
chips had been out of his possession
part of the time during the investiga
tion.
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