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eated Wednesday morning that a sur
prise would be snrung when J. M.
Gantt, a discharged employee of the
National Pencil Factory, took the
stand. They would not divulge the
nature of his expected testimony, but
a rumor is to the effect that Gantt
will assert that he saw Conley and
Frank talking together in Frank's of
fice at the time Conley stated in his
affidavit that Frank was dictating the
notes found besjde the Phagan girl’s
body.
Gantt severa/ days ago denied to
Georgian reporters that he had seen
Conley at all on the day of the crime,
and declared that he did not intend to
give testimony of this sort.
Frank Laughs for First Time.
During the testimony of Rogers.
FTank laughed Jteartily for the first
time since the trial began—in fact, it
was the first display of any emotion
that the defendant has made
Rogers was telling of his visit to
the Frank residence at No. 68 Eas:
Georgia avenue when the incident oc
curred which aroused Frank’s laugh
ter.
The ex-county officer said that De
tective Black had suggested that a
drink of wnisky would do Frank good.
Rogers said that Mrs. Frank had said
that her father, Mr. Selig, had suf
fered an attack of acute indigestion
and that there was no whisky left in
the house.
"He had had an attack of acute in
digestion and drank up all the liquor,"
repeated Attorney Rosser, humorous
ly. “Well, I have those attacks occa
sionally myself.”
Defense Hints Attack Theory.
Miss Grace Hicks, of No. 100 Mc
Donough road, followed Rogers on the
stand, and Solicitor Dorsey, after hav
ing her tell of identifying Mary Pha
gan the morning after the murder,
started at once on a line of question
ing that indicated his theory that
Mary Phagan was first attacked in or
near the women’s toilet on the second
floor of the factory.
Attorney Rosser, on cross-examina
tion, brought out that Frank seldom
spoke to the girls and that she did not
know that he was familiar with them.
The most important points in the
testimony of “Boots” Rogers in the
re-direct examination were:
That he heard Detective Starnes
make no mention of what had hap
pened at the factory when Starnes
called Frank Sunday morning.
That Frank, although the interval
between calling him and the arrival
of Rogers' car at Frank’® home was
only five or six minutes, was dressed
for the street, except for collar, tie,
coat and hat.
Says Frank Was Nervous.
That Frank’s shirt had the appear
ance of being freshly laundered.
That Frank appeared nervous and
asked of Detective John Black if any
thing had happened at the factory,
and if the night watchman had re
ported anything to the police
That Frank’s words were Jumpy;
that he continuously was rubbing his
hands, and that he moved about
nervously.
That the defendant, when he was
taken tojhe undertaking room, avoid
ed going into the room tvhere the
Phagan girl’s body lay. and that
\
never looked into the face of the girl
whom the State charges was his vic
tim.
That Frank still was nervous when
taken to the factory That he wit
nessed Frank take the tape from the
time clock and heard him remark that
the punches were correct. That he
(Rogers), while Frank was in the of
fice after a blank tape, examined the
tape taken from the clock and saw
that none of the punches had been
missed. v
Mlncey, the star witness for the
defense, was not In the witness room
Wednesday, nor was he there Tues
day. The prosecution openly stated
it did not expect Mincey to be Intro
duced as a witness. Attorney Arnold
would not discuss Mlncey’s absence,
but declared that he would be on hand
at the proper time.
Rosser in Dorsey’s Way.
During the cross-examination of
Rogers, Solicitor Dorsey insisted that
Attorney Rosser stand from between
him and the witness. Rosser’s huge
frame occupied a small space bounded
by the witness, the judge, Frank and
his wife and mother and the prose
cuting attorney. Mr. Arnold was also
Kept behind Mr. Rosser.
These h&ye been the relative posi
tions during all of the cross-examina
tions.
When on his feet Mr. Rosser’s per
son dominates the whole courtroom.
He was ostentatious in the use of his
hands and arms. He wore a thin
black coat and gray trouser* and a
low collar without a necktie.
Tells Dorsey to Get Stick.
“I beg your pardon.” he said in
reply to Solicitor Dorsey's admoni
tion. ‘‘Get a stick, Hugh, and keep
me punched out of the way.”
For a period of several minutes
during the cross-examination of Rog
ers, Frank fixed his eyes on Solicitor
Dorsey. They were strange eyes, al
most expressionless. Oorsey glanced
at him, then turned his gaze to the
witness.
Mrs. Frank, who the first day of the
trial shot dagger-like glances at the
Solicitor, seemed absorbed in the
testimony, and took no more notice of
Solicitor Dorsey than any of the other
principals in the case.
Factory Diagram Changed.
Court opened Wednesday with a
discussion of the admissibility of the
diagram of the pencil factory drawn
by Bert Green, a Georgian staff
artist. The key to the diagram and
all objectionable wording had been
removed.
Attorney Arnold still objected to
the lines which he claimed outlined
the theory of the prosecution.
“You don't have to label a horse
to see it is a horse,” he said.
Solicitor Dorsey cited legal au
thority which he claimed entitled
him to present the diagram as evi
dence. Attorney Arnold said:
“Those dotted lines have nothing
to do with the building proper at
all. It undertakes to show some
thing that the building itself
wouldn’t show.”
Revised Chart Admitted.
When Solicitor Dorsey started to
continue his argument Judge Roan
interrupted and said:
“Do you mean for the dotted lines
to show- the theory of the prosecu
tion?” 4
Yes,” answered Dorsey.
“But. ’ continued the judge, “it is
with the Jury as to whether you
prove this to be the correct theory or
not.”
“Yes,” said Dorsey.
“On those grounds then I admit it
as evidence,” said Judge Roan.
W. W. Rogers, the county police
man, who was one of the first to
visit the scene of the crime, was the
first witness of the day called.
Rogers on the Stand.
The Jury was brought in after the
picture was admitted.
The men filed into their seats,
showing for the first time some
signs of the long hours of confine
ment.
“Call W. W Rogers to the stand,”
said Solicitor Dorsey, announcing
his first witness.
The young man who took th© po
lice to the scene of the crime early
that Sunday morning was sworn.
Q. Where were you Saturday
night, April 26?—A. At the station
house.
Q. Where wore you at about 3
o’clock Sunday morning?—A. I was
still there.
Q. Where did you go from there?
—A. I took the police to the pencil
factory, where they had been called.
Q. What did you do then?—A.
After a negro let us in I went down
into the basement with the police
and found the body.
Present as Starnes Phoned.
Q. Were you present when Detec
tive Starnes called someone over the
telephone?—A. Yes.
Q. What time was It?—A. About
6 or 6:30 Sunday morning.
Q. Do you know who he called?
—A. No.
Q. What did he say?—A. I don’t
recall exactly, but in substance he
was asking some one to come to the
factory. 1 heard him gpv, "If y*si
will come I will send an automobile
for you.” He turned to me and asked
me If I would go to Mr. Frank’s
home and get him. He gave us the
address and Detective Black went
with me. Detective Black w r ent to
the door. I won’t be sure whether
he knocked or rang the bell. Mrs.
Frank answered the door. She had
on a heavy blue bathrobe. We asked
if Frank was there, and he came
through the curtain into the recep
tion hall.
Q. Was ho dressed for the street?
—A. Yes. with the exception of col
lar and coat.
Q. Can you tell exactly what he
had on?—A. A pair of shoes, blue
trousers, w’hite pleated shirt and
suspenders.
Neither Answered Frank.
Q. What was said?—A. When
Frank came in he went directly to
Black. He asked him, ‘Has anything
happened at the factory?’ Black did
not answer him, and, turning to me,
he asked the same question. I did
not answer.
Q. What else did he say?—A. He
asked, “Did the nightwatchman tel
ephone you anything had happened
at the factory?”
Q. What else?—A. Black did not
answ’er him then, but told him he
had better come to the factory.
Q. What did Starnes say to Frank
over the phone besides what you
have already told?
“I object,” said Attorney Rosser,
“on the ground that it is essentially
a leading question.”
“You will have to put the question
differently,” said Judge Roan to Mr.
Dorsey.
Tells of Phone Talk.
Q. Detail, now', w’hat Mr. Starnes
said first.—A. M r. Starnes was talk
ing to someone over the telephone. I
w'on’t be sure whether he told him
who it was or not. He asked this
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party he was talking to to come to
the factory. He said if he would, he
would send an automobile for him.
With that he turned to me and asked
me to go to Frank's house and get
him.
Q. Did you hear anyone else call
from the factory?—A. Soon after we
reached the pencil factory, about 3; 30
o’clock, I w'as up in the office with
Policeman Anderson and Newt Lee.
Anderson was trying to get some
one over the phone. I don’t know
who it was.
Q. What else happened at Frank’s
home?—A. I think he asked his wife
for his collar and coat.
Q. Was that all?—A. All I remem
ber.
“Your honor,” said Mr. Dorsey, “he
has clearly overlooked something. Can
I direct his attention to it?”
Frank Recalled a Dream.
"How do you know' it?” interrupted
Rosser.
“I have his testimony before the
Coroner’s Jury and I have talked to
him,” said Dorsey.
“Oh, Lord,” growled Rosser as he
sat down.
Q. What was said about a dream?—
A. Mr. Frank said something about
dreaming or hearing the telephone
ring during the night.
Q. Was anything said about
whisky?—A. Yes; Mr. Frank said he
had not had breakfast. He thought
he would like to have a cup of cof
fee. Detective Black said a drink of
whisky might do him some good.
Mrs. Frank answered that Mrs. Se-
lig had been ill with acute indigestion
and had used all of the whisky in
the house.
Q. How w'as Frank's voice that
morning?—A. He was nervous.
Q. What about his voice? Was it
fine?—A. Yes, it was fine; somewhat
like a woman’s. He asked questions
rather abrupt, right off the reel. His
questions were jumpy.
Appeared Very Nervous.
Q. What was his appearance when
you first saw him?—A. He was rub
bing his hands and was extremely
nervous.
Q. Was his hair combed or tous-
sled?—A. It was combed.
Q. What was the conversation on
the way to the factory?—A. Black or
myself—I don’t remember which—«
asked him if he knew a little girl
named Mary Phagan. H e asked if
she worked at the pencil factoi^ and
we told him we thought she dia! He
said he w'ould have to look on his
pay roll to see if she did; that he
didn't know many of the girls there
and that he never went out into
the factory among them much. We
suggested that we had better go by
the undertaking establishment and
let him see the body.
Q. Describe how you found the
body?—A. The room was dark. Un
dertaker Gheesling went back of the
body and turned on the light. The
head of the dead girl was toward the
wall. Ghesling took her face in his
hands and turned it toward us. Mr.
Frank had been behind me as we
entered the room, but when Ghes
ling turned the girl’s face to me I
looked around and Frank was going
out of the room.
Didn’t See Her Face.
Q. Ho rT long did he have to see the
face?—A. He didn't have any time,
for when her face was turned to the
light he had stepped outside the
room.
Q. Did you ask him any questions?
A. Mr. Black asked him if he recog
nized the body. He said if her name
was Mary Phagan he could tell
whether she worked at the factory by
looking over his pay roll.
Q. What was his attitude at the
undertaker’s establishment?—A. He
still appeared nervous.
Q. How?—A. Well, he stepped live
ly and moved quickly.
Frank sat passive during these
questions, his expression an enigma.
His wife and mother on each side of
him appeared weary.
Frank Looked at Books.
Q. What did Frank do when they
got to the factory?—A. Frank went to
the office and unlocked the safe. He
got a book and ran his hand down
a column and said: “Yes, Mary Pha
gan worked here; If I am not mistaken
she was here Saturday and drew her
pay.” He said it was some time a
little after 12 o’clock. He asked us
If we didn’t find a pay envelope near
her body. We told him no.
Q. What was the time exactly, ac
cording to Frank?—A. He just said
it was something a little after 12.
Q. What was his manner?—A. He
was nervous and quick,
Q. What was done about running
the elevator?—A. I don’t remember
exactly w r ho said it, but some one
suggested that we see where the girl
was murdered. Frank went out to the
sw’itchbox and opened it, and after he
had turned on a few things the ma
chinery began to run.
Tried to Start Elevator.
Q. Di<$ anyone ask him about the
switch box not being locked?—A. He
said the insurance company had him
stop locking it, saying it was against
the law.
Q. Did Frank run the elevator?—A.
He pulled the rope to start it, but it
would not move. He called Darley
and the elevator was started after
some little delay.
Q, Did anyone comment on the
murder?—A. I think Mr. Frank said
Darley had worked Newt Lee and
that if anyone could get anything out
of him it was Darley.
Q. What else happened?—A. Frank
said: “We had better nail the back
door, Darley.”
Q. What was done?—A. Frank and
Darley went to nail the back door.
Q. What did you do then?—A. Frank
said: “I guess we had better put in
a new tape, Darley.” He then took
the tape out of the box and remarked,
"They are all punched all right.”
Frank Brought Now Slip.
Q. Where was Newt Lee?—A. Lee
was right behind me, handcuffed.
Q. Where was Darley?—A. He was
right there.
Q. What happened next?—A. Mr.
Frank went to his office, brought out
a new' slip. He took out the old slip
and w’rote on it April 26, 1913.
Q. What did he do with it?—A. He
folded it once and went into his office.
Q. Did you see that slip?—A. Yes. I
glanced at it. The first punch was
6:01 and the second at 6:32. There
did not appear to be any skip in it.
Q Did you hear Frank say anything
about something to ea.t?—A. Yes. sev
eral times he said he wanted to get a
cup of coffee.
Attorney Rosser objected.
Didn’t Notice His Eyes.
“Maybe several wanted a drink—I
expect they did,” he said.
Solicitor Dorsey continued.
Q. Did you notice Frank’s eyes dur
ing the stay in the factory?—A. No.
Q. How long did you and Frank re
main in the factory?—A. I should say
something more than an hour.
Q. Where did you go?—A. In the
automobile with Lee, Darley. Black
and Frank to the police station.
Q. Was anybody under arrest?—A.
Lee.
Q. Was Frank?—A. I didn’t consider
him so.
Q. What happened at the station?—
A. They took Frank up to Chief Lan-
ford’s office.
Q. Did you see Frank do any writ
ing?—a. I saw Newt Lee write, but
not Frank.
Dorsey again wanted to refresh
Rogers’ memory about his testimony
before the Coroner’s Jury. Rosser
again objected. Judge Roan declared
the witness could not be led.
Q. Did you see the officers do any
thing with F*rank and Lee at the sta
tion ?_a. I saw them take Mr. Frank
and Lee up the stairs.
Q. Did you s«ee Frank with a pencil 7
—A. I can’t say that I did or did not.
I was around there so much and saw
so much.
Q. What w’as Frank’s attitude at the
station?—A. He appeared nervous, as
he had all the morning.
Q. Did you or not have occasion to
observe Frank’s hand at the police
station?—A. No, sir. I did not.
Rosser Takes Witness.
Mr. Rosser then took up the cross-
examination.
Q. You never saw' Frank before that
morning.—A. No.
Q. You don’t know whether what
you considered his nervousness was
natural to him or not?—A. No.
Q. How long after you had knocked
at Frank’s door w'as it before Frank
came?—A. About a minute or tw f o.
Q. You went to the factory with the
police?—A. Yes.
Q. You had some trouble In finding
whether the child was black or white?
—A. Yes.
Q. Didn’t someone have to pull
down her stocking and look at the
fle9h before they could tell her color?
—A. Yes, I believe so.
Tells of Victim’s Face.
Q. Was there dirt on her face?—A.
Yes.
Q. Was there dirt In her mouth?—
A. Yes, and some in her eyes.
Q. How long w'ere you at Frank’s
heme?—A. About fifteen minutes.
Q. It took that long for the things
you have told us to happen?—A. Yes.
Q. Are you sure of it?—A. Pretty
sure.
Q. You don’t know what time it was
w’hen you w r ent to the undertaker’s?
You don’t know w'hether it was* 7
o’clock or not, do you?—A. I can’t be
sure of that. I am trying to refresh
my memory as best I can.
Q. Did you swear to that conversa
tion with Frank about the pay envel
ope at the Coroner’s inquest?—A Yes.
I eaid something about :t.
Q. Are you as sure of that as the
other things you have sworn to this
morning?—A. I am sure I said some
thing about it.
Visit to Frank’s Home.
Q. Was anything said about a little
drink doing you all good?—A. Yes
When we were at Frank s home Black
said something about a drink. Mrs.
Frank called to Mrs. Selig and she
said there w r as no whisky in the
house; that Mr. Selig had an attack
of indigestion the night before and
used it all.
Q. When you were at the under
taker’s, how did you get to the chap
el?—A. We went down a long corridor.
Q. Did you know that Ghesling,
standing in front of the corpse, saw
Frank looking at it?—A. No.
Q. Then you won’t say that Frank
didn’t see the young girl’s face?—A.
I do say that it would have been im
possible for anyone to see her face
when it was turned to the wall, and I
can swear that no one but Mr. Ghes
ling and I went up to the corpse.
Wight Have Se«n Body,
Q. Wasn’t it possible that Frank
saw the body and the face at the
same time you did and turned his
head at the same time you did?—A.
Yes, I suppose so.
Q. Did Frank have any trouble un
locking the safe at the office? Did he
work the combination the first time?
—A. Yes, without any trouble.
Q. Mr. Frank tried the elevator and
couldn’t?—A. Yes.
Q. He called Mr. Darley?—A. Yes.
Q. Did It run smoothly when it
started?—A. Yes.
Q. Did it stop with a Jerk when It
reached the bottom?—A No; it Just
stopped.
No Stains in Sawdust.
Q. W’as there blood on the sawdust
w'here you found the body?—A. No;
w'e couldn’t find any.
Q. Was there blood anywhere?—A.
Yes; some on her underskirt.
Q. W’as there blood on her head?—
A. Yes, there was some dry blood
matted In the hair.
Q. Was there blood running any
where on the body?—A. I don’t re
member any.
Q. Who turned her over?—A. Ser
geant Dobbs, I believe.
Q. Were you there when they found
the shoe?—A. No.
Q. W’ere the shoe and hat found that
morning?—A. They were not before 1
left to get Grace Hicks to identify
the body.
Went to Station With Party.
Q. How did it happen that Frank
went with you to the police station?
Did he volunteer to go?—A. I don’t
know exactly. He went along with
the party without any hesitancy.
The question was interrupted by a
whispered conference between Ros
ser and Arnold; then Rosser con
tinued.
Q. When Mrs. Frank was tele
phoning to Darley, how far were you
from the telephone?—A. About 6
feet.
The re-dir*ct examination was be
gun by Dorsey:
Q. Could you tell by a glance at
the hair whether the girl was white
or not?—A. Yes, you couldn't tell by
the face. Dut it was evident It was
the hair of a white girl.
Couldn’t Have Seen Face.
Q. Did you say Frank die! or did
not see that girl’s face in the under
taking establishment?
“I object,” said Rosser.
“You can ask only what opportu
nities he had to see the face,” an
swered Judge Roan.
A. He couldn’t see it because her
body was not lying so that he could.
Rosser said: “Mr. Rogers, didn’t
you tell me that you didn’t know
where Mr. Frank was when you were
looking at the girl’s face?”—A. Yes;
but he couldn’t have seen it, unless
he was standing near me, and he
wasn’t standing near me.
Dorsey asked: “Did Frank ever go
into the room in which the body
was?”—A. To the best of my knowl-
edge he did not. He went in the di
rection of the toilet, or a room which
I took to be a toilet
Grace Hix on Stand.
Rogers was then excused, and Miss
Grace Hix w r ent on the fctand. She
was questioned by Dorsey.
Q. Did you know Mary Phagan?
At this point members of the jury
asked for water and while it was
Continued on Page 4, Column 1.
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