Atlanta Georgian. (Atlanta, Ga.) 1912-1939, August 08, 1913, Image 2
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Runs Through Open Switch
Shepherd Device Insures safety in railway travel.
Demonstration by train at Oakland City, 3 p. m., Saturday. Take
East Point car.
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2741
DAISY HOPKINS
Girl Mentioned by
STREET U GREW TELL
DENIES VISITING PENCIL FACTORY WITH DALTON.
Conley Swears That Leo Frank Never Spoke to Her
LI
MRS. LEO FRANK PHOTOGRAPHED AS
SHE LEAVES COURTHOUSE IN AUTO :
Continued From Page 1.
down tl:c c„ults in the rear of the factory, it would have dropped
behind a pile of boxes where it would have been more effectively
hidden than where it was discovered by Newt Lee. The solicitor
claimed that the trap door over the rear stairway into the base
ment was nailed.
The attorneys for Frank vigorously assailed Friday the stories
of two of the State’s of two of the State’s negro witnesses, Jim
Conley, the accuser of Frank, and Albert McKnight, who said he
saw Trank at the Selig home Saturday afternoon, April 2G.
The motorman and conductor of the street car on which Mary
Phagan is believed to have come to town the day of her death both
testified that they knew the girl and that she was on their cat* j
which arrived at Broad and Hunter Streets not before 12:07 j
o’clock. She stayed on the car, they said, until the car reached*{
Broad and Hunter Streets, which was about 12:10 o’clock. Con
sequently, it would have been impossible for her to reach the fac
tory before 12:11 or 12:12 o’clock.
If the testimony of the two street car employees is accurate,
it completely upsets Jim Conley’s story that he saw Mary Phagan
enter the factory before Monteen Stover came in. By the Stover
girl’s own testimony she entered the factory at 12:05 o’clock and
left at 12:10 o’clock. Thus, she had gone by the time the Phagan
girl arrived.
It also serves to destroy the significance of the Stover girl’s
testimony that Frank was absent from his office when she ar
rived there. As Mary Phagan had not yet arrived, according to
the testimony of the street car men, it could hardly be regarded
as a suspicious circumstance that Frank was not in his office, if'
it develops that he really was not. The defense also contends that
Miss Stover, who admits she did not enter the inner office, could
have looked through the doorway without seeing Frank.
called to discredit several of the
State’s witnesses. Ho had blueprints
of the Selig home which he displayed
to the Jury to show that it was im
possible for Albert McKnight to have
seen from kitchen into the din
ing room, ns he testified he did, on
the Saturday afternoon that Frank
came home from the factory.
His testimony was to the effect that
, ... , . , T , , , i Monteen Stover could not have seen
tified that ho was at trank s over the safp door lnto KnmkH office
home the afternoon of the miir- ] at the time she declared she was un
der and that he saw Frank board I " ble to ttntl hlm on her vlslt to the
a Georgi avenue or to return to f “HcAid that there was mom for
several todies to pass down the scut
tle hole Into the basement. He ex
hibited a diagram of the factory to
show that Frank could have sat in
I his office and not been aware of any
thing taking place beyond the time
clock—for example, anyone coming up
or going down the stairs.
Miss Daisy Hopkins, who C. B. Dal
ton said was his companion on visits
to the factory basement, was called
by the defense and denied Dalton’s
statements.
The wife of
the defendant
in the Phagan
case is always
among the first
to reach the
courtroom
in the morning.
Soon after court reconvened
in the afternoon, H. J. Ilinchey,
of No. 301 Peachtree street, man
ager of the South Atlanta Blow
pipe Company, appeared at the
courthouse under subpen of the
defense to discredit the story of
Albert McKnight. McKnight tes-
the fetory.
Hlnchey stated before he went on
the stand that he was riding In his
automobile on Washington street
Memorial Day and at 2:15 o’clock he
saw Frank got off a Washington
street car at Washington and Hunter
streets w’hen the car was stalled by
the parade. Frank then was on his
way to the factory.
Earlier in the day the defense in
troduced other evidence to discredit
McKnight. Photographs and blue
prints of the Selig home were dls- | sa hl she never had spoken to j
played to show that It would have l Frank, and that Frank never had spo- I
been practically impossible for Me- ken to her.
Knigh* to F o e Frank at the sideboard. J Solicitor Dorsey made an attack or
serve what color her clothes were?
as the negro testified when he was on !
the stand.
Photos and Models Introduced.
Photographs and blue prints of th<
pencil factory also were put In evl
I mtt she had been in jail on a statu
tory charge. It was brought out,
however, that she was released with
out tHal.
dence and in the afternoon a large [ Frank, for the first time'during the
rtzed model of the pencil factor*/, trial, took ana etive part In helping
constructed on a scale of three-eights
of an inch to the foot, was brought
into the court room. It was made by
T. H. Willett, a patternmaker, of No.
100 Highland avenue, and John Cox,
an attache of Reuben Arnold’s office.
The model and blue prints were
submitted in an effort to demonstrate
that the State’s theory of the crime
is unreasonable and preposterous, and
to Illustrate the theory that the de
fense holds.
Attorney Arnold, who was conduct
ing the examination during the fore
noon. sought also to throw a deep
shadow’ of suspicion upon the story
of young George Epps, ho testified
that he rode uptown with Mary Phu-
gan the day she was killed.
Matthews said that another girl
was seated with Mary the latter part
of the ride to town. He did not recol
lect that Epps was on the car at all
The motorman said that he was re
lieved at Broad and Marietta streets
and that he sat behind Mary and her
companion all the way to Hunter
street He said the two alighted at
Hunter street and proceeded toward
Forsyth, on which the factory is lo
cated.
This is in direct contradiction tn
the story' of Epps, who testified that
he and Mary left the car at For
syth and Marietta streets and that
he w’alked with her toward the fac
tory as far as the viaduct.
Didn’t See Epps.
Hollis did not remember seeing
Epps on the car. He said Mary was
alone when he collected her fare aft
er the car got on English avenue. He
left the car at Forsyth and Marietfe
streets and did not see Mary Phagan
alight there.
Albert Kauffman, an architect, was
direct the course his case was taking.
He arose from his seat several times
to make suggestions to his lawyers,
and at his request certain questions
w ere put.
Before Daisy Hopkins was called
Solicitor Dorsey said he wanted to
ask Harry Scott one more question.
Attorney Rosser said he also wanted
to ask one more question of Boots
Rogers, Detective J. M. Starnes and
George Epps. Detective Scott was
the first witness called.
Dorsey asked:
Q. Mr. Scott, how long did it take
you to get Jim Conley to write after
he had admitted that he could write
and you di t&ted H to him without
delay?—A. Two or throe minutes.
Daisy Hopkins on Stand.
Mi s Hopkins is a woman of very
small features, with bright, keen ey es
and wore a cotton striped dress that
looked a bit too short. She wore
white shoes and stockings. Mr. Ar
nold began the questioning:
Q Did you ever work for the Na
tional Pencil Company?—A. Yes. 1
went to work there about October
1, 1911. and quit June 1. 1912.
Q What department? A. Packing
department.
Q. What floor?—A. Second floor.
O How many other girls worked
there?—A. Sometimes there were as
many as ten.
Q. Did you know Leo M. Frank?—
A I knew him when I saw him. I
saw him pans around the factorv
Q Did he ever speak to you?—A.
No. never in my life
Denies Drinking in Frank’s Office.
Q. lMd you ever go into Frank’s
office and drink beer and cold drinks
with other women?—A. No, I never
went into his office and I don’t drink.
Q. Do you know C. B. Dalton?—A.
1 know him when I see him.
g. Did you ever speak to him?—A.
I went to his home once to see his
sister and spoke to him. That is the
only time.
Q. Did you ever go to the pencil
factory with Dalton?—A. No, I never
did.
Q Did you introduce him to Mr.
i
Frank?—A. No, l did not.
Q. Did you ever go into the factory
and go into the basement with Dal
ton?—A. No, 1 don’t even know where
th.„ basement is. 1 never have been
in it.
Says She Was Married.
Dorsey took the witness on cross-
examination.
g. Were you ever married?—A.
Yes.
Q. Where?—A. Redair.
U. Who did you marry?—A. E. A
Sills
Q. Who married you?—A. Preacher
Miles.
Q. Who is your doctor?—A. Dr.
Pound.
Q. What is he treating you for?—A.
Stomach trouble.
Q. Were you ever in jail?—A. Nc
g. Do you know this man here.
Garner, my deputy?—A. No.
g Did he get you out of Jail?—A
No. he was along.
g. What were you charged with?—
. A. Somebody told tales on me.
Q. Who Drought you down here?—
j A. Mr. Burke. •
"Bill” Smith Her Lawyer.
Arnold took the witness on the
redirect.
I g. Who got you out of jail?—A.
I My lawyer.
Q. Did you pay anything?—A. I
only paid inv lawyer his fee
Q. Who was your lawyer?—A. Mr.
Bill Smith.
W. M. Mathews, motorman on the
English Avenue car on which Mary
Phagan is supposed to have come to
town from her home. Saturday, April
26. followed Miss Hopkins on the
stand.
Q. What was your run on April 26?
—A. English avenue that runs to
Be 11 wood.
Q. What time did you pass Lind
say street?—A. Ten minutes to 12.
Q. Was that on schedule?—A. Yes
Q. Did a little girl named Mary
Phagan get on at Lindsay street?—A
Yes.
Sat Behind Mary Phagan.
Q. What is the distance from Lind
say street to Broad street?—A. A’.'O'Jt
two miles.
Q. What time did you get to Mari
etta and Broad streets?—A. At
12:07 1-2. We were on time.
Q. Do you recollect where (his lit
tle girl got off?—A. At Broad and
Hunter' streets.
Q. What time did you reach that
point?—A. About two and one-ha’f
minutes later It took that long on
account of the crowds.
Q. It took that long?—A. Yes. I
was not running the car then. I was
sitting behind Mary Phagan. There
was a little girl on the seat with her.
Q. Where did she get off?—At
Broad and Hunter streets.
Q. What time was it than?—A.
12:10 as near as 1 could recollect.
g. Where did she go when she got
off?—A. She walked to the sluewalv
with the girl that was with her.
g. Did you see this little girl get
on the car?—A. Yes.
Q. Did a little boy get on the car
with her?—A. No.
Didn’t See Epps Boy.
Q. Do you know this little boy
Epps?—A. Yes.
g. Did he get on the car with her?
A. No.
Q. He didn’t sit on the seat with
her?—A. No; I didn’t see him.
Dorsey took the witness.
I Q. You said you arrived at Broad
and Hunter streets at about 12:10
o’clock. Why do you say about 12:10
if you are sure of it?- A. It w r as about
that time.
g. Didn’t you tell Detective Whit
field. of the Pinkertons, that you
might have been three or four min
utes ahead of schedule?—A. No.
Q. You are sure you never told him
that? A. No.
g. How is it that you are willing
to tell this jury that Mary Phagan
did not get off at Marietta and Broad
streets?—A. Wait a minute and 1 will
tell you. There was an ex-conduc
tor sitting by me. He had a pin on
his coat. I took it off and leaning
over to Mary Phagan I said: "Little
girl, this is your picture." She said:
"No, it ain’t.” That made me positive
g. Tell me how these little girls
were dressed?—A. 1 don’t remember,
except they w’ere dressed in some
thing light,
Q. Well, tell us anything that Mary
Phagan had on?—A. I don’t know
anything except she had on a dress
and hat.
g. Yes, she had on shoes and stock
ings, too?—A. Yes, and her dress was
light colored.
g You didn’t see George Epps?—A.
No. I didn’t $ee him.
Q. Would you know George Epps If
you were to see him?—A. I would
know’ him if 1 were to see him now.
Q. Tell me one thing about him by
which you can identify him?—A. 1
can’t remember.
Q. What color was Mary Phagan’s
hat?—A. It was light color.
Q. You say it was a light color.
Just what color was it?—A. I don’t
know.
Q. What did you say light color
for? Come, don’t
Arnold Calls Halt.
Attorney Arnold interrupted.
"Just wait a minute. That is not
the form to question him.”
"All right. I'll put the question dif
ferently.” said Dorsey.
Q. Mr. Matthews, you did not ob-
A. No, sir.
g. What time did you hear about
her murder? - A. Sunday morning.
Q. What time did you go down to
identify her?—A. About 6:45 in the
afternoon.
g. You recognized her as the lit
tle girl you had carried down the day
before?—A. Yes.
Q. How did you recognize her?—A.
Well, I knew her. One dafy she was
late and I waited for her and she said
she was mad because she w’as late.
Every time after that I would ask
her if she w r as mad.
Fails on Color of Hat.
Attorney Arnold took the witness
and showed him the dress Mary Pha
gan wore.
Q. Was this the dress she wore
that day?—A. I am not sure, but it
looks like it might have been.
Solicitor Dorsey took the witness.
He showed the witness Mary Pha-
gan’s hat.
Q. Is this the light hat you just
now told the Jury Mary Phagan had
on? (The hat was of dark lavender
material.)
Q. The girl you saw had on a
light hat?—A. That’s what I remem
ber.
The witness was excused, and W. T.
Holjlis, conductor on the English ave
nue car on which the Phagan girl
rode to town Saturday, April 26, took
the witness stand. Arnold examined
him.
Q. What is your business?—A.
Street car conductor.
Q. Where were you on April 26?—
A'. On the English avenue and Coop
er street line.
Q. Did you cross Lindsay street?—
A. Yes.
Conductor Saw Girl.
Q. On what street?—A. Bellwood
avenue.
Q. How many miles Is it from
this point to the heart of the city?—
A. I couldn't say.
Q. What time do you leave the
other end of the line?—A. On th«
hour, quarter and half.
Q. What time did the car that 1*
at 15 minutes to 12 get to the city?
A. It took 22 1-2 minutes.
Q. Did the little girl get on
Lindsay street?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you know her name then
A. No.
Q. When did you see her again
A The next day at the morgue.
Q. Did this little boy. George Ep;
get on the car and ride with her?-
A. No; he was not with her when
I collected the fare.
Q. Was the car crowded?—A.
There were only three passengers.
Q. What time did you get to Broad
and Marietta streets?—A. About
12:07 1-2.
Epps Boy Didn't Get Off.
Q. Where did you get off?—A.
At Marietta and Forsyth streets.
Q. Did this little girl get off there?—
A. No; I left her on the car.
Q. Did this little boy, Epps, g^ j
off there?—A. No.
Q. How long did it take to get
from Broad and Marietta to Huntei
street—A. About 2 1-2 minutes, as a
rule.
Q. Do you recollect how she was
dressed?—A. Np.
Q. You don’t know whether these
are the clothes?—A. No; I never
noticed.
Attorney Hooper took the witness
on cross-examination.
Q. There was nothing unusual
about her coming in that day, was
there?—A. No.
Q. There was no particular reason
why you should remember these
things, is there?—A. No.
Never Ahead of Time, He Says.
Q. You don’t know whether these
are her clothes, or not, do you? A.
No.
Q. You always notice when any
thing happens to throw you off your
schedule, don’t you?—A. Yes.
Q. But you don’t pay any atten
tion to being a few minutes ahead
of time, do you?—A. We don’t ever
come in town ahead of time.
Q. Are you ever late?—A. Yes;
sometimes.
Q. Was there anyone sitting with
Marv Phagan on the car?—A. No.
Q.‘ You didn’t see a little girl sit
ting beside her?—A. No. When I
got her fare, she was sitting alone,
as I-remember.
Q. She usually came down early in
the morning—factory hours—didn't
she?—A. Yes; she usually caught the
car that gets to town at 7:07. She
said she was fifteen minutes late
when she caught that car, when she
said she was mad.
Q. Which end of the car did she
get on?—A. The front end.
Q. Which end were you on?—A.
The back end.
Q. And you say you overheard a
conversation between her and the
motorman?—A. Yes; he asked her if
she was mad, and she said yes, she
was late.
Said She Was Late.
Q. She went down early in the
morning, as a rule? Yet, when she
said she was late, it was ten min
utes to 12 o’clock?—A. Yes.
Attorney Arnold took the witness
on the redirect examination.
Q. Are the cars on this line long
or short?—A. Short cars.
Q. Was there any difficulty in
hearing what was said on the front
end when the car was standing still?
A. No.
Q. No such thing as being ahead of
time ever happens?—A. No, sir; it is
against the rules of the company.
Attorney Hooper took the witness
again.
Q. Do you mean to say that you
obey the rules of the company so
well that you are never ahead of time
nor never a little late?—A. It isn’t
against the rules of the company to
be late.
Q. Then you are never early—not
even when going to the barn?—A. It
isn’t against the rules of the company
to come in ahead of time when going
to the barn, so long as you don't run
reckless. ,
Q. And that day you brought Mary
Phagan in was your last trip?—A.
Yes.
Defense Turns Over Books.
Attorneys for the defense at this
Juncture turned over to the prosecu
tion the cash book and the bank book
of the National Pencil Company. Hol
lis was excused and Albert Kauffman,
an engineer, who drew a plot and dia
gram of the Selig residence where
Frank resided, took the stand.
He was examined by Attorney Ar
nold.
Q. What la your business?—A. Civil
engineer.
Q. Have you made a drawing of the
Selig residence on Georgia avenue?—
A. Yes.
Q. When?—A. Last week.
Q. Did you make a plat of the
kitchen, the dining room, the recep
tion hall, the parlor and the hall?—A.
Yes.
Q. How many feet is it from the
kitchen door to th e passageway?—A.
Fourteen feet.
Couldn’t See Mirror.
Q. How wide is the passageway?—
A. Two and one-half feet wide and
about two feet long.
Q. Did you stand in the kitchen door
and see if you could see the mirror
in the dining room?—A. Yes.
Q. Could you see it?—A. No. No
part of the glass was visible.
Q. Were you present when a pho
tographer took views of the place?—
A Yes.
Q. Standing on the south side of
that door, did you see the sideboard?
A. Not within two or three feet of it.
Q. Have you drawn a plat of Geor
gia avenue?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you draw a diagram of the
block bounded by Pulliam street?—A.
Yes.
Q. How far is It from the Selig
home to Pulliam street?—A. 221 feet.
Q. How far to Washington street?
A. 175 feet.
Q. What does this represent? (A
diagram of the pencil factory was
displayed.)—A. That is th e pencil fac
tory.
Gives dimensions of Factory.
Q. What is the size of the elevator
shaft?—A. Six by eight.
Q. What is the length and breadth
of this hole? (A spot where the lad
der goes down into the basement of
the factory was indicated).—A. Two
feet by 2 feet 3 inches.
Q. What is the distance from the
elevator to the spot where the body
was found?—A. 176 feet.
Q. To the boiler?—A. 90 feet.
Q. From the elevator to this toi
let?—A. 118 feet.
Q. The distance from the elevator
to the back stairway?—A. 135 feet.
Q. The elevator to the chute? First,
the dimensions?—A. 6 feet wide, 15
feet long.
Q. Was that large enough for a
human b <dy to go down?—A. One or
several.
Q. How far from the elevator is
It?—A. About 30 feet.
Q. How far is the back door from
the elevator?—A. 165 feet.
Q. The total length of the building?
—A. 200 feet.
Q, What are the widths of the
walls?—A. Four feet.
g. What kind of a bunk is in that
inclosure back there by the boiler?
A. A big box. *
Q. What is in It?—A. All kinds of
trash.
Q. How far is the trash pile from
the spot where the body was found?—
A. Sixty-one feet.
Q. The toilet?—A. Twenty-one
feet.
Q. From the back door?—A. For
ty-two feet.
Q. What about the line of vision
from the toilet to where the body
was found?—A. An angle of 43 de
grees.
Q. How far would the line of vision
throw’ you from this partition?—A.
About 3 feet.
Q. Could you see a body there?—
A. Not all of it.
Q. Is it an accurate plan of the
first floor?—A. Yes.
Q. What is the width of the front
door?—A. Six feet.
Q. What is the length of this
partition from the front door?—A.
Twenty-six feet.
Q. From the front door to the
stairway, how’ far ils it—A. Thirty-
six feet.
Q. From the staircase to the ele
vator shaft?—A. Thirteen feet.
Q. From the stairway to this hole?
—A. Ten and one-half feet.
Q. Is there a long hallw’ay on the
first floor?—A. Yes.
Trap Door Near Tragic Spot.
Q. Does it extend to the west end
of the building?—A. Yes
Q. What is it used for?—A. Maybe
a storeroom.
Q. Was it closed?—A. Yes.
Q. What was in there?—A. Two
toilets.
Q. How* far back?—A. About 90
feet.
Q. Is this the spot directly ovpr
where the body was found?—A. Yes.
Q. What did you find 0 n the right-
hand side, next to the toilet?—A. A
trap door.
Q. Were there steps?—A. Yes.
Q. How near to this chute was the
body found?—A. About 20 feet.
Q. When the tiap is open, where
docs it lead to!—A. To the base
ment.
Q. What Is it used for?—A. To
send boxes down.
Q. Did you observe the door of the
safe when it stood open in the outer
office?—A. Yes.
Q. To what extent did it close off
the view to the Inner office?—A. En
tirely.
Q. Could you see over that safe
door?—A. Yes.
Q. Could a girl?—A. I don’t think
so.
Q. To the right of the door in the
inner office, what did you find?—A.
A desk.
Q. Are there two w indows thereV
A. Yes.
Q. They open on the street, don't
they?—A. Yes.
Office 150 Feet From Dressing Room.
Q. This is Frank’s desk?—A. Yes.
Q. A person on the other side of
the street could see the desk, couldn’t
they?—A. Yes.
Q. How’ far is it from Frank’s of
fice to the dressing room?—A. Cne
hundred and fifty feet.
Q. What kind of a view is It from
Frank’s office to the stairway?—A.
None at all.
Q. What kind of a view of the
clock?—A. He could see about one-
quarter of the first clock.
Q. What are these open spaces
(pointing to the diagram)?—A. Pas
sage w’ays.
Q. How wide are the doors to the
metal room?—A. Six feet.
Q. How far from that door is it to
the ladies’ room?—A. About 10 feet.
Frank Makes Suggestion.
Q. From that point how far is it
to the lathe?—A. Twenty feet.
Q. From this lathe to the point
where Conley said he found the body?
—A. Thirty-seven feet.
Q. How far from the ladies’ toilet?
—A. Nineteen feet.
Here Frank arose from his seat
and w’alked across to Attorney Ros
ser to make a suggestion for a ques
tion
Q. What is the size of these vats?—
A. Six by four.
Q. Could you get a girl Into one
of these?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you find in this whole build -
Continued on P~ge 4, Column 1.
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