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2 TTTF ATLANTA GEORGIAN AND NEWS. DAISY HOPKINS DENIES VISITING PENCIL FACTORY WITH DALTON Girl Mentioned by Conley Swears That Leo Frank Never Spoke to Her STREET CAR CREW TELL MRS. LEO FRANK PHOTOGRAPHED AS SHE LEAVES COURTHOUSE IN AUTO A. No; I left her on the car. j Q. Did this little boy, Epp», gel P'OE TO PENCIL FACTO Continued From Page 1. down the chute in the rear of the factory, it would have dropped behind a pile of boxes where it would have been more effectively hidden than where it was discovered by Newt Lee. The solicitor claimed *hat the trap door over the rear stairway into the base ment was nailed. The attorneys for Frank vigorously assailed Friday the stories of two of the State's of two of the State’s negro witnesses, Jim Conley, the accuser of Frank, and Albert McKnight, who said he saw Frank at the Selig home Saturday afternoon, April 26. The motorman and conductor of the street car on which Mary Phagan is believed to have come to town the day of her death both testified that they knew the girl and that she was on their cat* which arrived at Broad and Hunter Streets not before 12:07 o’clock. She stayed on the car, they said, until the car reached* Broad and Hunter Streets, which was about 12:10 o’clock. Con sequently, it would have been impossible for her to reach the fac tory before 12:11 or 12:12 o’clock. If the testimony of the two street car employees is accurate, it completely upsets Jim Conley's story that he saw Mary Phagan enter the factory before Monteen Stover came in. By the Stover girl’s own testimony she entered the factory at 12:05 o’clock and left at 12:10 o’clock. Thus, she had gone by the time the Phagan girl arrived. It also serves to destroy the significance of the Stover girl’s ! testimony that Frank was absent from his office when she ar rived there. As Mary Phagan had not yet arrived, according to the testimony of the street car men, it could hardly be regarded as a suspicious circumstance that Frank was not in his office, if* it develops that he really was not. The defense also contends that Miss Stover, who admits she did not enter the inner office, could have looked through the doorway without seeing Frank. The wife of the defendant ir the Phagan case is always among the first to reach the courtroom in the morning. Soon after court reconvened in the afternoon, II. J. llinehey, of No. 391 Peachtree street, man ager of the South Atlanta Blow pipe Company, appeared at the sepn from th<- kl,rhen lnto ,he din ' inp room, ns he testified he did. on courthouse under subpen of the called to discredit several of the State's witnesses. He had blueprints of the Sella home which he displayed to the jury to show that It was Im possible for Albert McKnlcht to have the Saturday afternoon that Prank defense to discredit the story of | came home from the factory. Albert McKnight. McKnight tes-1 H, « testimony was to the efrect that , , ! Monteen Stover could not .have seen; tinea that he was at rrank s home the afternoon of the mur der and that he saw Frank board a Georgi avenue er to return to the fetorv. Hinchey etnted before he jvent on the Mtand that he was riding in his automobile on Washington street Memorial Day and at 2:15 o’clock he saw FYnnk get off a Washington street car at Washington and Hunter streets when the car was stalled by the parade. Frank then was on his way to the factory. Earlier in the day the defense In ver the safe door Into Frank’s office at the time she declared she was un able to find him on her visit to the factory. He said that there was room for several todies to pass down the scut tle hole Into the basement. He ex hibited a diagram of the factory to show that Frank could have sat In his office and not been aw'are of any thing taking place beyond the time clock—for ♦ xample, anyone coming up or going down the stairs. Miss Daisy Hopkins, who C. B. Dal ton said was his companion on visits to the factory basement, was called trod need other evidence to discredit : »>* *he defense and denied Dalton's McKnight Photographs and V»lne j statements, prints of the Selig home were dis played to show that It would have been practically Impossible for Mc Knight to R*e Frank nt the sideboard, as the negro testified when he was on the stand. Photos and Models Introduced. Photographs and blue prints of the pencil factory also were put In evi dence and in the afternoon a large She said she never had spoken to Frank and that Frank never had spo ken to her. Solicitor Dorsey made an attack od her character and forced her to ad mit she had been in jail on a statu tory charge. It was brought out however, that she was released with out trial. Frank, for the first time during the serve what color her clothes were? A. No, sir. sized model of the pencil factor/, trial, took ana ctive part in helping constructed on a scale of three-eights of an inch to the foot, was brought into the court room. It was made by T. H. Willett, a patternmaker, of No. 100 Highland avenue, and John Fox, an attache of Reuben Arnold’s office. The model and blue prints were submitted In an effort to demonstrate that the State's theory of the crime is unreasonable and preposterous, an 1 to illustrate the theory that the de fense holda Attorney Arnold, who was conduct ing the examination during the fore noon, sought also to throw a deep shadow’ of suspicion upon the story of young G*»orge Epps, ho testified that he rode uptown with Mary Pha gan the day she w ? as killed. Matthews said that another girl was seet?d w’ith Mary the latter part of the ride to town. He did not recol lect that Epps was on the car at all. The motorman said that he was re lieved at Broad and Marietta streets and that he sat behind Mary and her companion all the wav to Hunter street He said the two alighted at Hunter street and proceeded toward Forsyth, on which the factory is lo cated This is in direct contradiction to the story of Epps, w’ho testified that he and Mary’ left the car at For syth and Marietta streets and that he walked with her toward the fac tory as far as the viaduct. Didn't See Epps. Hollis did not remember seeing IDpps on the car. He said Mary' was alone w’hen he collected her fare aft er the car got on English avenue He left the car at Forsyth and Marietta streets and did not see Mary Phagan alight there. Albert Ayiffman, an architect, was direct the course his case was taking He arose from his seat several times to make suggestions to his lawyers, and at his request certain questions were put Before Daisy Hopkins w r as called Solicitor Dorsey said he w’anted to ask Harry Scott on*> more question. Attorney Rosser said he also w’anted ask one more question of Boots Rogers, Detective J. M. Starnes ami George Epps. Detective Scott was the first witness called. Dorsey asked: Q. Mr. Scott, how’ long did it take you to get Jim Conley to write after he had admitted that he could write and you dictated it to him without delay? A. Two or three minutes. Daisy Hopkins on Stand. Miss Hopkins is a woman of very small features, with bright, keen ey’es and wore a cotton striped dre^s that looked a bit too short. She wore white shoes and stockings. Mr. Ar nold b**gan the queationlng: Q. Did you ever work for the Na tional Pencil Company?—A. Yes. 1 went to work there about October 1. 1911, and quit June 1. 1912. q What department?-—A. Packing department. Q. What floor?—A. Second floor. Q How many other girls worked th«re?—A. Sometimes there were as many as ten. Q. Did you know Leo M. Frank?— A 1 knew him when I saw him. I saw him pas* around the factorv Q. Did he ever speak to you?—A. No, nev**r in my life Denies Drinking in Frank’s Office. Q. Did you ever go into Frank's office and drink beer and cold drinks with other women?—A. No, I never went into his office and I don’t drink. Q. Do you know C. B. Dalton?—A. I know him when 1 see him. Q. Did you ever speak to him?—A. I went to his home once to see his sister and spoke to him. That is the only time. Q. Did you ever go to the pencil factory with Dalton?—A. No, I never did. Q. Did introduce him to Mr. Frank?—A. No, I did not. Q. Did you ever go into the factory and go into the basement with Dal ton?—A. No, I don’t even know where the basement is. I never have been in it. Says She Was Married. Dorsey took the witness on cross- examination. Q. Were you ever married?—A. Y • ■ Q. Where?—A. Redair. Q. Who did you marry?—A. E. A. Q. Who married you?—A. Preacher Miles. Q. Who is your doctor?—A. Dr. Pound. Q. What is. he treating you for?—A. Stomach trouble. Q. Were you ever in ji^Jl?—A. Nc Q. Do you know this man here. Garner, my deputy?—A. No. Q Did he get you out of Jail?—A No, he was along. Q. What were you charged with?— A. Somebody told tales on me. Q. Who brought you down here?— A. Mr. Burke. “Bill” Smith Her Lawyer. Arnold took the witness on the redirect. Q. Who got you out of Jail?—A. My lawyer. Q. Did you pay anything?—A. I only paid my lawyer his fee. Q. Who was your lawyer?—A. Mr. Bill Smith. W. M. Mathews, motorman on the English Avenue car on w'hioh Marv Phagan Is supposed to have come to town from her home, Saturday, April 26, followed Miss Hopkins on the stand. Q. What was your run on April 26? —A. English avenue that runs to Bell wood. Q. What time did you pass Lind say street?—A. Ten minutes to 12. Q. Was that on schedule?—A. Yes Q. Did a little girl named Mary Phagan get on at Lindsay street?—A. Yes. Sat Behind Mary Phagan. Q. What is the distance from Lind say street to Broad street?—A. A Go'it two miles. Q. What time did you get to Mari etta and Broad streets?—A. A: 12x07 1-2. We were on time. Q. Do you recollect where this lit tle girl got off?—A. At Broad and Hunter streets. Q. What time did you reach that point?—A. About two and one-hi’f minutes later. It took that long on account of the crow’ds. Q. It took that long?—A. Yes, I was not running the car then. I was sitting behind Mary Phagan. There was a little girl on the seat with h a r. Q. Where did she get off?—At Broad and Hunter streets. Q. What time was it than?—A. 12:10 as near as 1 could recollect. Q. Whriv did sh• 1 go when she got off?—A. She walked to the siuewaU with the girl that was with her. Q. Did you see this little girl get on the car?—A. Yes. Q. Did a little boy get on the car with her?—A. No. Didn't See Epps Boy. Q. Do you know this little boy Epps? A. Yes. q. Did he-get on the car with her? A. No. Q. He didn't sit on the seat w’ith her?—A. No; 1 didn't see him. Dorsey took the witness. Q. You said you arrived at Broad and Hunter streets at about 12:10 o’clock. Why do you say about 12:10 if you are sure of it?—A. It was about that time. Q. Didn’t you tell Detective Whit field, of the Pinkertons, that you might have been three or four min utes ahead of schedule?—A. No. Q. You are sure you never told him that?—A. No. Q. How is it that you are willing to tell this Jury that Mary Phagan did not get oft at Marietta and Broad streets?—A. Wait a minute and 1 will tell you. There was an ex-conduc tor sitting by me. He had a pin on his coat. I took it off and leaning over to Mary Phagan I said: “Little girl, this is your picture.” She said: ■’No, it ain’t.’’ That made me positive Q. Tell me how these little girls were dressed?—A. I don't remember, except they were dressed in some thing light. Q. Well, tell us anything that Mary Phagan had on?—A. I don’t know anything exceut she had on a dress and hat. Q. Yes, she had on shoes and stock ings. too? a Y i's, and her dross was light colored. Q. You didn't see George Epps?—A. No, I didn't see him. Q. Would you know George Epps if you were to see him?—A. 1 would know' him if 1 were to see him now. Q. Tell me one thing about him by which you can identify him?—A. I can t reinember. Q What color was Mary Phagan’s hat?—A. It was light color. Q. You say it was a light color. Just what color was it?—A. I don’t know. Q. What did you say light color for? Come, don’t Arnold Calls Halt. attorney Arnold interrupted. "Just wait a minute. That is not the form to question him." "All right, I’ll put tho question dif- ; ferently,” said Dorsey. Q. Mr. Matthews, yqj* did not ob- Q. What time did you hear about her murder?—A. Sunday morning. Q. What time did you go down to identify her?—A. About 6:45' in the afternoon. Q. You recognized her as the lit- tle girl you had carried down the day before?—A. Yes. Q. How did you recognize her?—A. Well, I knew her. One day she was late and I waited for her and she said she Was mad because she was late. Every time after that I would ask her if she was mad. Fail* on Color of Hat. Attorney Arnold took the witness and showed him the dress Mary Pha gan wore. Q. Was this the dress she wore that day?—A. I am not sure, but it looks like it might have been. Solicitor Dorsey took the witness. Me showed the witness Mary Pha- gan’s hat. Q. Is this the light hat you Just now' told the Jury Mary Phagan had on? (The hat was of dark lavender material.) Q. The girl you saw had on a light hat?—A. That’s w’hat I remem ber. The witness was excused, and W. T. Hollis, conductor on the English ave nue car on which the Phagan girl rode to town Saturday, April 26, took the witness stand. Arnold examined him. Q. What Is your business?—A. Street car conductor. Q. Where were you on April 26?— A. On the English avenue and Coop er street line. Q. Did you cross Lindsay street?— A. Yes. Conductor Saw Girl. Q. On what street?—A. Bellwood avenue. Q. How many miles Is it from this point to the heart of the city?— A. I couldn’t say. Q. What time do you leave the other end of the line?—A. On th. hour, quarter and half. Q What time did the car that lc < at 15 minutes to 12 get to the city? A. It took 22 1-2 minutes. Q. Did the little girl get on Lindsay street?—A. Yes. Q Did you know her name then A. No. Q. When did you see her again A The next day at the morgue. Q. Did this little boy. George Epi get on the car and ride with her? A. No; he was not with her when I collected the fare Q. Was the car crowded?—A. There were only three passenger*. Q. What time did you get to Broad and Marietta streets?—A About 12:07 1-2. Epps Boy Didn’t Get Cff. Q. Where did you get off?—A. At Marietta and Forsyth streets. Q. Did this little girl get off there?— off there?—A. No. Q. How long did it take to get frorr Broad and Marietta to Huntei street—A. About 2 1-2 minutes, as a rule. Q. Do you recollect how she was dressed?—A. No. Q. You dos t know' whether these are the clothes?—A. No; I never noticed. Attorney Hooper took the witness on cross-examination. Q. There was nothing unusual about her coming in that day, was there?—A. No. Q. There was no particular reason why you should remember these things, is there?—A. No. Never Ahead of Time, He Says. Q. You don’t know whether these are her clothes, or not, do you?—A. No. Q. You always notice w r hen any thing happens to throw you off your schedule, don’t you?—A. Yes. Q. But you don’t pay any atten tion to being a few minutes ahead of time, do you?—A. We don't ever come in town ahead of time. Q. Are you ever late?—A. Yes; sometimes. Q. Was there anyone sitting with Mary Phagan on the car?—A. No. Q. You didn’t see a little girl sit ting beside her?—A. No. When I got her fare, she was sitting alone, as I remember. Q. She usually came down early in the morning—factory hours—didn’t she?—A. Yes; she usually caught the car that gets to town at 7:07. She said she was fifteen minutes late w'hen she caught that car, when she said she was mad. Q. Which end of the car did she get on?—A. The front end. Q. Which end were you on?—A. The back end. Q. And you say you overheard a conversation between her and the motorman?—A. Yes; he asked her if she was mad, and she said yes, she was late. Said She Was Late. Q. She went down early in the morning, as a rule? Yet, when she said she was late, it was ten min utes to 12 o'clock?—A. Yes. Attorney Arnold took tfte witness on the redirect examination. Q. Are the cars on this line long or short?—A. Short cars. Q. Was there any difficulty in hearing what was said on the front end when the car w'as standing still? A. No. Q. No such thing as being ahead of time ever happens?—A. No, sir; it is against the rules of the company. Attorney Hooper took the witness again. Q. Do you mean to say that you obey the rules of the company so well that you are never ahead of time nor never a little late?—A. It isn’t against the rules of the company to be late. Q. Then you are never early—not even when going to the barn?—A. It isn’t against the rules of the company | to come in ahead of time when going to the barn, so long as you don’t run reckless. Q. And that day you brought Mary Phagan in was your last trip?—A. Yes. Defense Turns Over Book*. Attorneys for the defense at this Juncture turned over to the prosecu tion the cash book and the bank book of the National Pencil Company. Hol lis was excused and Albert Kauffman, an engineer, who drew a plot and dia gram of the Selig residence where Frank resided, took the stand. He w'as examined by Attorney Ar nold. Q. W’hat Is your business?—A. Civil engineer. Q. Have you made a drawing of the Selig residence on Georgia avenue?— A. Yes. Q. W’hen?—A. Last week. Q. Did you make a plat of the kitchen, the dining room, the recep tion hall, the parlor and the hall?—A. Yes. Q. How many feet is it from the kitchen door to th e passageway?—A. Fourteen feet. Couldn’t Sae Mirror. Q. How w’ide is the passageway?— A. Two and one-halt feet wide and about two feet long. Q. Did you stand in the kitchen door and see if you could se* the mirror in the dining room?—A. Yes. Q. Could you see it?—A. No. No part of the glass was visible. Q. Were you present when a pho tographer took views of the place?— A. Yes. Q. Standing on the south side of that door, did you see the sideboard? A. Not within two or three feet of it. Q. Have you drawn a plat of Geor gia avenue?—A. Yes. Q. Did you draw a diagram of the block bounded by Pulliam street?—A. Yes. t Q. How far Is It from the Selig home to Pulliam street?—A. 221 feet. Q. How far to Washington street? A. 175 feet. Q. What does this represent? (A diagram of the pencil factory was displayed.)—A. That is the pencil fac tory. Give* Dimensions of Factory. Q. What is the size of the elevator shaft?—A. Six by eight. Q. W’hrit is the length and breadth of this Mple? (A spot where the lad der goes\down into the basement of the factory was indicated).—A. Two feet by 2 feet 3 inches. Q. What is the distance from the elevator to the spot where the body was found?—A. 176 feet. Q. To the boiler?—A. 90 feet. Q. From the elevator to this toi let?—A. 118 feet. Q. The distance from the elevator to the back stairway?—A. 135 feet. Q. The elevator to the chute? First, tlie dimensions?—A. * feet wide, 15 leet long. Q. Was that large enough for a human body to go down?—A. One or several. Q. How far from the elevator is it? A. About 30 feet. Q. How far is the back door from the elevator?—A. 165 feet Q. Q. The total length of the building? tirely. When the trap does it lead to?—A. ment. Q. W’hat is it us send boxes down. Q. Did you observ< snfe when it stood o office?—A. Yes. Q. To what the view' to the inner is open, where To the base- for?—A. To the door * r the nt did it clos iff ice ?—A. —A. 200 feet, Q. W T hat are the widths of the walls?—A. Four feet. Q. W’hat kind of a bunk is in that inelosure back there by the boiler? A. A big box. Q. W r hat is in it?—A. All kinds of trash. Q. How far is the trash pile from the spot where the body was found?— A. Sixty-one feet. Q. The toilet?—A. Twenty-one feet. Q. From the back door?—A. For ty-two feet. Q. What about the line of vision from the toilet to w'here the body was found?—A. An angle of 43 de grees. Q. How far w'ould the line of vision throw you from this partition?—A. About 3 feet. Q. Could you see a body there?— A. Not all of it. Q. Is it an accurate plan of the first floor?—A. Yes. Q. W’hat is the width of the front door?—A. Six feet. Q. W’hat is the length of this partition from the front door?—A. Twenty-six feet. Q. From the front floor to the stairway, how far iis it—A. Thirty- six feet. Q. From the staircase to the ele vator shaft?—A. Thirteen feet. Q. From the stairway to this hole? —A. Ten and one-half feet. Q. Is there a long hallw'ay on the first floor?—A. Yes. Trap Door Near Tragic Spot. Q. Does it extend to the west end of the building?—A. Yes Q. W r hat is it used for?—A. Maybe a storeroom. Q. W’as it closed?—A. Yes. Q. What was in there?—A. Two toilets. Q. How far back?—A. About 90 feet. Q. Is this the spot directly over w'here the body was found?—A. Yes. Q. W’hat did you find on the right- hand side, next to the toilet?—A. A trap door. Q. Were there steps?—A. Yes. Q. How near to this chute was the body found?—A. About 20 feet. Q. Q. Could you : *—A. Yes. Could a girl? er that safe -A. I don’t think door in the ou find ?—A. Q. To the right of the inner office, what did yc A desk. Q. Are there two windows there?—* A. Yes. Q. They open on the street, don’t they?—A. Yes. Office 150 Feet From Dressing Room. Q. This is Frank’s desk?—A. Yes. Q. A person on the other side of the street could see the desk, couldn’t they?—A. Yes. Q. How far is it from Frank’s of fice to the dressing room?—A. One hundred and fifty feet. Q. W’hat kind of a view is it from Frank’s office to the stairu’ay?—A. None at all. Q. W’hat kind of a view of the clock?—A. He could see about one-' quarter of the first clock. Q. What are these open space* (pointing to the diagram)?—A. Pas sage w T ays. Q. How wide are the doors to the metal room?—A. Six feet. Q. How far from that door is it to the ladies’ room?—A. About 10 feet. Frank Makes Suggestion. Q. From that point how' far is it to the lathe?—A. Twenty feet. Q. From this lathe to the point where Conley said he found the body? —A. Thirty-seven feet. Q. How far from the ladies’ toilet? —A. Nineteen feet. Here Frank arose from his seat and walked across to Attorney Ros ser to maifb a suggestion for a ques tion. Q. 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