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DEFENSE MS 10
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perience, had ever known of a physician of repute giving his opin
ion as to the unconsciousness of a person with no more data than
had been in the possession of Dr. Harris.
Dr. Childs replied that he never had.
The mysterious C. B. Dalton, who was expected to make sen
sational revelations of incidents in which Leo Frank was alleged
to have participated in the National Pencil Factory, proved a very
tame and commonplace witness when he was called Thursday.
The most that Dalton could say was that, on several of his
visits to the factory, he had seen women in Frank's office. He
told of no compromising situations. He was not even able to iden
tify the women. He did not know whether or not they were mem
bers of Frank's own family. All that he knew was that they
did not appear to be stenographers as he never saw them writing.
Dalton, when he was questioned by Luther Rosser, was not
even sure of his own birthplace. He thought it was somewhere in
Laurens County. He explained his presence by saying that he had \
gone to the factory with a Miss Daisy Hopkins. He said that he
saw Frank in the office with two or three women, and that cool
drinks generally were in evidence. On one occasion he said Frank |
and his visitors were drinking beer.
Detective Rosser on Stand.
Detective Bass Rosser was on the witness stand for a few min
utes and was questioned briefly. He testified that when he saw
Mrs. Arthur White the Monday after the crime she failed to tell
him that she had seen a negro in the factory the Saturday the girl
was killed. He said he did not get possession of this information
until May 6 or 7. It is the contention of the State that the defense
suppressed these facts.
At the conclusion of Detective Rosser’s testimony, Solicitor
Dorsey announced that he was prepared to rest as soon as Dr. H.
F. Harris had completed the testimony which was interrupted by
adjournment Wednesday afternoon. Dr. Harris was unable to ap
pear when court opened at 9 o’clock. The prosecution had nothing
more to present at 9:45 and a recess was taken until Dr. Harris
arrived at 11:10.
Reuben Arnold began at once on a cross-examination of Dr.
Harris as soon as the physician took the stand. He forced Dr. Har
ris to say that there is much uncertainty in drawing conclusions
about digestive functions and their time limitations.
Solicitor Dorsey also asked for the submission of the National
Pencil Company’s cash book and bank book before he rested his
case. This was agreed to by Frank’s lawyers.
One of the most interesting pieces of evidence for the purpose
of demonstration in the possession of the defense is a large-sized
model of the National Pencil Company constructed on an accu
rate scale.
Frank chatted with his wife and mother in the intermission
while the court was awaiting Dr. Harris, and a little later engaged
in conversation with his attorneys. Dr. Childs entered the court
room and talked several minutes with the defendant.
Mr. Arnold said:
“Further than this witness I don’t know what line we will
pursue at present.”
“Did you ever work for the
National Pencil Company t” was
the first question the Solicitor
asked Dalton.
Mr. Arnold interrupted.
"Your honor,” he said, “we want it
understood that we object to this tes
timony—all of it.”
Judge Roan overruled the objection
“Weil, we want our objection re
corded,” eaid Rosser.
Dorsey continued his questioning.
“Do you know Leo Frank and Jim
Conley?” continued the Solicitor. A.
Yes; 1 know them both.
Q. Were you ever in the factory of
the National Pencil Company?—A.
Yes; two or three times.
Q. Did you evet go to Frank's of
fice with Miss Daisy Hopkins?—A.
Yes.
Was in Basement.
Q. Was Frank there?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever go down in the
basement?—A. Yes.
The witness then pointed out on
the diagram the spot he was in in
the basement.
Q. Did you ever see Conley on those
visits?—A. Yes: and one time I saw
another negro, a watchman.
Q. Did Frank know you were in
the basement?—A. He knew I was in
the factory- I don’t know whether he
knew I was in the basement or not.
Dorsey then turned the witness over
to the defense for the cross-exami
nation.
"When was the first time you saw
Frank at the pencil factory?” asked
Mr. Rosser.
“Last fall some time.”
Q. Where was Frank at that time?
—A. At his office.
Q. Who was in there with him?—A.
Some ladies.
Q. Were there any other men in
there with him?—A. No; he was the
only man.
Q. Who was you with?—A. Miss
Daisy Hopkins.
Q. Do you know the names of the
ladies In the office with Mr. Frank?—
A. No.
Q. Where did you go?—A. I went to
the basement.
Q. Was Miss Daisy with you?—A.
Yes.
Q. When did you go to the factory
again?—A. Right before Christmas.
Q. Who introduced you to Frank?—
A. Miss Daisy Hopkins.
Q. She Just said to Mr. Frank, "This -
is my friend, Mr. Dalton,” did she?—
A. Yes.
Went to Basement.
Q. You were never in his office aft
er Christmas?—A. No.
Q. When you went into the factory
with Miss Daisy, you went down to
the basement with her. didn’t you?—
A. Yes.
Q. Where did you go down into the
basement?—A. We went down the
ladder by the elevator.
Q. Where did you go in the base
ment?—A. Right to where there were
some boxes in the little room in the
rear.
Q. Where did you live last year?—
A. No. 337 East Hunter street.
Q. Who did you work for?—A. Mr.
Heflin, a contractor.
Q. Where did you work after that?
—A. With Captain John McGinnis.
Q. What time did you see Frank in
his office?—A. Some time between 2
and 3 o’clock.
Q. Were the windows up?—A. 1
don’t know.
Q. Did you see any curtains?—A
No, but the office was very light.
Q. There were two windows in each
office, weren’t there?—A. Yes.
Q. Do you know whether there was
anyone else in the factory when you
saw Mr. Frank?—A. Yes; the negroes
were there.
Saw Negro Watchman.
Q. What time at night was it when
the night watchman was there?—A. I
don’t know.
Q. Was it a negro watchman?—A.
Yes.
Q. Was that this year?—A. No.
Q. Were you ever in Walton Coun
ty?—A. I lived there twenty years.
Q. How long were you away from
there?—A. 1 went to Lawreneeville
for about a year.
Q. How long ago?—A. I don’t know’.
I forget Just how long ago it was.
Q. Did you ever go with anyone to
the pencil factory except MLss Daisy
Hopkins?—A. Yes, I used to go to the
Busy Bee and wait for the factory to
close to walk home with the girls.
Q. Can you name the girls?—A.
Yes; Miss Laura Atkinson and a Miss
Laura Smith, of No. 148 South Pryor
street.
Q. Do you go there any more?—A.
No; 1 haven’t been to the Busy Bee
in a long time.
Q. Where were you born?—A I
don’t know.
Q. When you first woke up, where
were you?—A. Somewhere in Walton
County.
Gave Conley Money.
Q. As a matter of fact, you know
where your family lived when you
were born, don’t you?—A. Somewhere
near Lawrenceville.
Solicitor Dorsey took the w itness on
the redirect examination.
Q. Did you ever give Jim Conley
anything?—A. Somet mes I would give
him a quarter and sometimes 50
cents. Sometimes they w’ould have
cold drinks, and sometimes they
would have beer.
Rosser took the witness again.
Q. When did you see beer there?—
A. On Saturday afternoons—I don’f
remember the dates.
Q. Can you name specifically any
time last fall that you w’ent there?—
A. Not the day, but it was some time
after 2 o’clock in the afternoon. Mr.
Frank would have the cold drinks on
a waiter in his office.
Can't Give Women's Names.
Q. And that is a« definite as you
can fix it?—A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know r the women be
sides the ones you name?—A. No.
Q. Can you describe them?—A. No.
“Come down.’’
City Detective S. L. Rosser took the
stana.
Q. Since April 26, have you been
engaged in this case?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you visit Mrs. Arthur White
subsequent to that date?—A. Yes.
Q. At what time?—A. Monday, April
28.
Q. Did she say anything about see
ing a negro at the pencil factory Sat
urday?—A. No.
Q. What was the first time she
mentioned to you seeing a negro at
the factory?—A. May 6.
“I w’ant to record an objection to
that, your honor,” said Rosser.
Rosser took the witness.
She Made Statement.
Q. Did you ask her?—A. No; but
she made a statement.
Dorsey took the witness on redi
rect.
Q. Did you take anything to Dr.
Claude Smith?—A. Yes; some chips.
Q Are these the chips?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you make a search of the
areaway around the elevator?—A.
Yes.
Q. Did you find anything like this
(showing the bludgeon alleged to have
been found by the Pinkertons)?—A.
No.
Q. Would you have found it?—A.
Yes.
Attorney Rosser took the witness
again.
Q. Don’t you know this roller has
been in that factory two years?—A. It
may have been, but It was not on
the first floor when we made our
search.
State Wins Ruling.
Q. You made a good search?—A.
Yes.
Q. Do you know’ these are the same
chips?—A. Yes, I am sure of that.
'fhe witness was excused.
Dorsey addressed the courf:
"I don’t know w hether we tendered
that bloody shirt or not. If we did
not, I want to tender it now. I also
want to enter these chips.”
Attorney Rosser:
“They haven’t been identified.”
“They were identified by Detective
Starnes and Chief Beavers,” said Dor
sey.
Judge Roan ruled that he w’ould let
them go to the jury.
Dorsey:
State’s Case Nearly Finished.
“Now, I want the cash book and
the bank book of the National Pencil
Company.”
Arnold said they would be fur
nished?
Dorsey:
"I want it understood as soon as
Dr. Harris is able to complete his tes
timony the State is ready to rest its
case.”
"Mr. Dorsey,” said Arnold, "will you
tell Mr. Dalton not to leave. We may
want to recall him.”
Judge Roan declared a recess until
Dr. Harris could reach the court. He
said it would be about 10 o’clock.
Dalton Recalled fo»* Moment.
Dorsey recalled the witness.
Q. Were you ever in the pencil fac
tory with Daisy Hopkins?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you go to the factory with
her?—A. Yes.
Q. Where was Frank?—A. In his
office.
Q. Where did you go?—A. In the
basement.
Q. Did he know you were there?—
A. Yes.
Q. Did Conley know you were there?
A. Y r es.
Q. Who else?—A. The night watch-
man at one time.
Court then had a recess until Dr.
H. F. Harris, w’ho was excused from
the witness stand Wednesday on ac
count of illness, could arrive in court.
The recess lasted for more than an
hour. Dr. Harris, when he arrived
upon the stand, was questioned upon
cross-exam.nation by Attorney Reu
ben Arnold.
Q. Unfavorable circumstances some
times retard digestion, don’t they?—
A. Well, that is a very grave matter,
and there is so little data on the sub
ject it is hard to answer.
About External Circumstances.
Q. You would not say then that
external circumstances, some undue
mental excitement, might delay di
gestion?—A. I really don’t know.
There was an old Roman proverb
that a person should take a walk aft
er eating. Others say sleeping after
a meal aids digestion.
Q. Then there is no set rule for di
gestion? Everybody is a rule unto
themselves?—A. Not altogether. The
average normal stomach is about the
same in digestion.
Q. There is no indication on the
outside of the body that would indi
cate how far digestion has gone?—A
None whatever.
Q. Don’t the pult*e or temperature
show* indigestion?—A. JCo. Very many
people have indigestion several years
and don’t know’ it. They don’t even
feel it themselves.
Q. How long does the stomach take
to free itself when it Is full?—A. That
has been investigated rather thor
oughly, but it varies. I would say
about 7 1-2 hours.
Q. How long does It take some sub
stance that the stomach does not di
gest to pass out?—A. That Is hard
to say. They probably pass through
in a foreign body.
Q. How long would it take?—A.
That depends. The stomach doesn't
like to free itself of meat until it is
emulsified. Then It goes out ver.t
freely.
About Digestion of Cabbage.
Q. That Is just the point. Does
the stomach emulsify cabbage or
corn?—A. Oh, yes; there is always a
constant churning motion.
Q. How about corn?—A. It might
pass through without emulsifying.
Q. Peas?—A. Yes.
Q. You w’ould not attempt to enu
merate what vegetables would pass
through the stomach to the intestines?
A. No. I would not.
Q, Is it not a fact that the first
knowledge of digestion comes from
that Canadian case?—A. Yes.
Q. Is it not a fact that the only
experiments before that time w’ere
made on rabbits and other animals
for vegetables, and animals for meat?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there any animal that eats
everything that man does?—A. Yes,
the sw’ine.
Q. Any other?—A. I rather think
the cat does.
Q. Well, isn't the wildcat a carniv-
erous animal strictly?—A. I don’t
know. I never associated with one.
Q. You will admit that the experi
ments along this line are very limited
with the exception of that Canadian
case?—A. Yes.
Processes Not All Understood.
Q. It is practically in its infancy?—
A. Well, I w’ould not say that. We
are fairly familiar with the various
juices and the process of digestion.
But there is still much to learn.
Q. Just what part does the mouth
and saliva play in connection with
the sumach and the gastric juices,
and the lower bow’els? Is not this
something that is- not definitely
known?—A. Yes, that is true.
Q. Don’t you practice vivisection on
these animals?—A. Yes.
Q. And you have never done It on
humans, and you don’t know how the
processes take place in the human
like you do in the animals?—A. Ex
cept with the stomach.
Q. What is the hardest vegetables
to digest? I mean, leaving your ex
periments and speaking from the
viewpoint of science.—A. I don’t know
that science has ever determined that.
Q. Isn’t cabbage regarded as one of
the hardest vegetables to digest?—A.
I probably have heard that. It may
be that after cabbage has gone
through the stomach, trouble may be
caused In the small intestines that
may be what has given the geennl
idea that cabbage is hard to digest.
Q. Didn’t you say when you first
testified that you couldn’t tell any
thing about the bread in the stom
ach?—A. I don’t think I made that
statement.
Mr. Arnold read his testimony
previously given.
Dr. Harris: "If I said that, I dl.1
not mean it in that sense. I meant
that you could tell nothing about it
by observing with the naked eye.”
Q. You said it was impossible to
state absolutely how long that cab
bage had been in Mary Phagan’s
stomach.?—A. I meant I could not
state within a minute.
Q. Could you tell within two min
utes?—A. No, not within'3, or 4, or 5.
Probably not within 10 minutes. Buf
I could tell that it was somew’here
betw’een 30 and 45 minutes.
Q. Doesn’t it all depend on how
much digestion is delayed?—A. To an
extent.
Q. All you are attempting to say,
then, is that the process of digestion
had only gone on a certain length of
time?—A. Yes.
Q. Didn’t you say that certain cir
cumstances retard digestion?—A.
Yes, but I didn't say that anything ♦
could retard tho flow of the digestive
juices. No one has ever shown that
anything could retard the process of
digestion.
Head Wound Not Serious.
Q. I believe you said that wound
on the head did not cause any pres
sure on the brain?—A. Yes.
Q. Was it cut through to the skull?
—A. Yes.
Q. What arteries were there?—A.
Only some trifling blood vessels.
Q. I believe you said it might have
bled a good deal?—A. Yes, it might.
A cut on the head usually causes a
good deal of blood to flow.
Q. I believe you said it was not
sufficient to have caused death?—A.
Yes, I did.
Solicitor Dorsey then took the wit
ness.
Q. Mr. Arnold w’as asking you yes
terday about poisons. Was there any
.evidence on the mucous membrane of
poisons?—A. There could not have
been any irritant poisons. Their evi
dence is always unmistakable.
Dr. Harris was excused.
Dorsey addressed the court: "Your
honor, I w r ish to tender these samples
of cabbage as evidence.”
Arnold—We want to object to a\l
except that taken from Mary Phagan* *
Continued on Page 4, Column 1.
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