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THE ATLANTA GEORGIAN AND NEW??.
OFFICE BOY TESTIFIES
IN DEFENSE OF FRANK
ALONZO MANN.
sMa/r'*''""’ 'Vy.
Continued From Page 2.
ney Arnold said that he was going to
introduce actual time teats.
Judge Roan—I will let it in, then,
because under these circumstances it
would be fact and not or>lnion.
Dorsey—This witness can not pass
upon the time it took Frank to choke
the little girl.
Attorney Arnold (jumping up. an
grily)—Of course, he doesn’t know
how long it took Conley to choke her.
Judge Roan—1 think I understand
the question now. There is no evi
dence here, Mr. Arnold, that they
went through the movements as rap
idly as Conley did, and I thiid^Jt
was his college mate at Pratt Instl-
tue and at Cornell.
Q. Do you know his general charac
ter?—A Yea. \
Q. What Is it?—A. Good.
Former Office Boy
Called by Defense.
would only be an opinion
Arnold—These men went as fast as
they could.
Judge Roan—But the negro never
said how fast he walked.
Arnold — Is your honor going to bind
us by the unsupported story of this
negro 0
Rosser—Your honor, experimenta
tion is purely for establishing relevant
accuracy. Even the negro could not
go through the same movements
again in the same length of time.
Dorsey—Your honor, these men
■were not under pressure. They had
not just choked a poor little Innocent
girl to death. They were not trying
to dispose of the body. 1 challenge
them to cite any authorities. I sub
mit that if anyone of less standing
and ability than these two gentlemen
should urge such a proposition, you
would not pay any attention to it.
think it is a fact that they have laid
down the proposition that /nakes you
rMuctant to decide against them.
Judge Roan—They or anyone else
can not influence me to do anything
wrong.
Dorsey—I didn’t mean that. 1 have
respect for their opinions, but my
authorities are clear that non-expert
testimony based on tests outside or
court is inadmissible. If Dr. Owens
can get up here and testify that he
thinks Conley could not have done it
as he said he did, he might testify
that he could have committed the
murder. Then we could produce wit
ness after witness to show that Con
ley did have time to do what he saln.
Thus the absolute absurdity of the
proposition is revealed.
Attorney Arnold read several au
thorities. , „ „
Judge Roan—What is the reason
this witness can't be called bark this
afternoon ? 1 will rule on It now If
you gentlemen insist, but I would
rather you would produce your au
thorities. to see if you can And any
Georgia cases.” 0
Dr. Owens was excused until -
o’clock.
The witnofw was excused and Frank
Payne, a former office hoy at the Na
tional Pencil Company, was called.
Q. How old are you?—A. 16.
Q When did you last work at the
pencil factory'?—A. About 8 months
ago.
More Witnesses
Score Dalton.
O A Nix of Qwinett County, was
next rilled. Arnold questioned him.
q What is your business?—A % ca^-
'*Q. Do you know C. B Dalton?
A. Yes. , , , ,
y Is he the man who was tried in
Gwinett County for stealing?—A. Yes.
y Would you belive him on oath
A No.
Solicitor Dorsey declined to cross-
examine the witness and he was ex
cused. . _ . ..
Samuel Cvaig. a farmer, of Gwinett
Countv. was next called ami declared
that he knew Dalton and would not
believe him under oath. On cross-
examination. Craig said it had been
fifteen years since he had known
Dalton The witness was excused
and B. L Patterson, a farmer, of
Gwinett County, was the next wit-
Arnold questioned him.
y Where do you live?—A. Gwinett
County. ,
y. What is your business?—A. I
am a farmer.
Q. How many acres of land do you
0 wn?—A. I never counted them.
y. Do you know C. B. Dalton?—A.
Yes.’
Q. Would you believe him under
oath?—A. No.
( The witness was excused and Rob
ert Craig, of Gwinnett County was
called. Under Attorney Arnold’s
questioning Craig declared he owned
800 acres of land; that he knew C.
B. Dalton and would not believe him
on oath.
Ed Craig was the next witness. He
declared he was a farmer of Gwin
nett County, who had known C. B.
Dalton and would not believe him on
oath.
T. L. Ambrose and J. P. Byrd, also
of Gwinnett County, testified along
the same line as their predecessors.
Q. Where are you working now?—
A. Nowhere.
y Were you there last Thanksgiv
ing day?—A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember what kind of
a day it was?—A. It snowed.
Q. Were Mr. Frank and Mr. Schlff
there?—A. Yes.
Q What did you do?—A. Mr. Schlff
sent m»* up to the fourth floor, to fix
some boxes.
Q. Who waa up there?—A. Jim
Conley.
Q. What time did he leave there?—
A. About 11 o’clock
Q. What time did you leave?—A.
About 11 o’clock,
Q. Did you see Jim Conley when
you left?—A No.
Q. What time did you leave the
factory on Saturday?—A. About ^
o’clock.
y. Did Mr. Frank ever have any
women there?—A. No.
Q. How many weeks were you
there?—A. Five or six.
Hooper took the wltnesg on cross-
examination.
y. What were your duties there?—
A. General office boy.
Q. You spent most of your time in
Frank's office?—A. Yes.
Q How long since you quit work
ing there?—A. It has been seven or
eight months ago.
y. Did you ever see any beep bot
tles around there?—A. No.
Q. You say Jim Conley was there
last Thanksgiving morning?—A. Yes.
Q. What time did you notice him?
—A. He was sweeping around yiere
until about 10:30 o’clock.
Q. What time did you leave?—A.
About 11 o’clock.
Lemmie Quinn
Called to Stand.
The witness was excused and Lem
mie yuinn was called. Arnold ques
tioned the witness.
Q. Where did you work?—A. I am
foreman of the metal department of
the National Pencil Company.
Q. Is that the department Mary
Phagan worked In?—A. Yes.
Q. Do you recollect Memorial day?
—A. Yes, it was a holliday at the fac
tory.
Q. Do you recollect the occasion
when Mr. Barrett discovered the
spots on the floor of the metal room
and some strands of hair on a lathe?
—A. Yes. He mentioned those dis
coveries to me.
Q. Dtd he ever mention any re
ward he expected to get if Mr. Frank
w as convicted?— A. Yes. lie mentioned
$2,700 onre and another time $4,500.
He said he had been told that if Mr.
Frank was convicted there wasn’t
any chance to keep him out of his re
ward. He wanted my advice. I told
him 1 w as not a lawyer and could not
tell him.
Q Had anyone noticed them before
Barrett said he discovered them’.’—
A. No.
Q Do you remember a mart named
Gilbert getting cut In the metaL room
and bleeding around the women’s
dressing room?—A. Yes.
Q. When way it?—A. About a year
ago.
Q Do you know' of anyone being
cut since then?—A Yes. a boy was
cut on the hand.
y. Did he go by the women’s dress
ing room?—A. Yes.
y. Did you know what that stuff
was over the spot on the floor?—A.
No.
Q. Do you know what has ever be
come of that hair?—A. I think the
detectives have It.
Hail Might Have
Blown Into Lathe
Brooklyn Man First
Character Witness.
Alfred Lane, of Brooklyn. N. Y.,
was the first character witness to be
introduced by the defense. He is a
wealthy merchant of that city. Ar
nold questioned him
Q. What is your business?—A. A
merchant of New York.
Q. Do you know Leo M. Frank?—A.
Yes. 1 knew fiim at Pratt Institute
from 1898 to 1902, and later at Cor
nell.
Q. You say you knew' him at Pratt
Institute for four years?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you know him at Cornell?—
A. Yes; I didn’t go to Cornell, but I
saw’ him much in Brooklyn.
Q. How old was he when you were
together at Pratt Institute?—A. Be
tween 17 and 21 years.
Q. Do you know his general char
acter?—A. I do.
Q. What is it—good or bad?—A
Good.
Dorsey did not cross-examine tlie
witness. He was excuse! and Philip
Nash, of Ridgewood. N. J.. was called.
Arnold examined him
Q. What is your business?—A. Elec
trical engineer for a telephone com
pany.
Q. Where did you know Leo M.
Frank?—A. I was with him at Pratt
Institute for four years.
Q. Do you know his general char
acter?—A. Yes.
Q. Was it good or bad°—A. Good
The witness was excused without
cross-examination. Richard A
Knight, of Brooklyn, a consulting en
gineer and a college mate of Frank's
at both the Pratt Institute and Cor
nell, was called by Attorney Arnold
Q. Do you know Leo M. kYank?—
A Yes.
Q. Where did you know him?—A. I
Q. Is tTtero any place in that room
where the girls dress their hair?—A.
Why, there’s a little gas jet about ten
feet from the lathe.
Q. This jet is between the lathe
and the west window's and a breeze
might blow the hair across to this
lathe, might it not?—A. Yes.
y. What time did you get your pay
Friday night before the murder? A.
About 20 minutes to 6.
Q What was the last time before
the murder that you saw Mary Pha
gan? A The Monday before.
Q. Why did she not work that
week? A We were out of material
and she was laid off
Q Did you ever see Mr. Frank
speak to Mary Phagan? A. No I
never did.
y You w’ere examined about all
these things by the Coroner and they
were impressed on your memory
were they not ° A. Yes.
Mr. Quinn told in detail what he
did during the morning up to the
time he returned to the factory. He
said the fronts door of the factory was
unlocked.
Q. When you got up to Frank’s
outer otfiee was the door open or
shut? A. Open.
Q. How about the door to the in
ner office?—A. Open.
Q. How about the safe door in the
outer office?—A. I think it was open.
j.»S, 0 ' V hat time was this?—A. About
time ago. I don’t rememebr how long
Q Did It look like this blood found
in front of the ladies’ dressing room?
—A. Yes. except the last I saw there
w’as darker.
Q. You told Mr. Starnes, Mr. Black
and the other officers that you did not
go into the factory on that Saturday?
—A. Yes.
Q You did not tell anyone about
being in the factory until after you
had been down to see Frank, did you?
— A. No, sir.
Q What did Mr. Frank say w'hen
you told him?—A. He .said he remem
bered seeing me, but didn’t remember
the time.
Q Didn’t he tell you to keep it
quiet until he had seen his lawyers?
—A. He didn’t say keep it quet. Hq
said he would talk with his lawyer.
y. When was this that you saw'
Frank?—A. Tuesday ^.fter the mur
der.
Q You were with the police all
day Monday and said nothing about
It?—A. I wasn’t with them all day.
Explains Why He Was
Led to Tell of Visit.
y. Off and on, all day?—A. I saw’
them a number of times.
y Are you absolutely Pure about
what time you were in Frank’s of
fice?—A. Reasonably sure.
Q. Do you deny that you told Officer
Payne that you had not been to the
factory since Friday?—A I do.
Q. You admit refreshing Frank’s
memory about your visit?—A. Yes.
Q. Tell us just w'hat you said.—A. I
told him that I was there and he said
he remembered it. but not the time
ex ept that it was after the time Mary
Phagan was there
y. Didn’t you tell him. ‘T don’t like
to be brought into it, but if it will
help you. 1 will”?—A. Yes.
Q He told his lawyers and said
they advised him to mention it, and
you told the police?—A. Yes.
Q. Did ycu talk to Barrett before
the Coroner’s injuest?—A. No; that
was after the Coroner’s inquest.
Q. Where is Miss Jefferson, who
diMeovered These spots, working now ?
A. At the pencil factory.
Q. Are you sure of that?—A. She
was there yesterday in the polishing
department.
Q. You saw her?—A. Yes.
Q. Now', you didn’t tell the officers
you were in the factory on Satur
day. April 26, until the following Sat
urday?—A. The next Saturday.
y. Didn't you say this to the Coro
ner’s Jury? That you told Frank you
were there, and he said he would
mention it to his attorneys to see
w'hether it was favorable or not?—
I don’t know whether I said favorable
or not.
ket?—A. About three doors.
y. What pharmacy was that?—A.
Benjamin’s.
y. How long did you stay there?—
A. About three minutes.
y. Did you sec anyone else at the
factory besides Mr. Frank?—A. No.
Q. What office was he In?—A. The
inner office.
y. What did you say?—A. 1 askM
him it Mr. Schiff was In. He said,
'’No."
y. Did you say anything else?—A.
I made some remark about his not
being able to keep me away even on a
holiday.
y. What time was it when you left?
—A. About 12:20.
Q. Where did you go?—A. To De
vore’s pool parlor. It was about 12:30
then.
y. Where did you go from the-e?—
A. To the cafe, where I met Miss Hail
and Mrs. Freeman.
White Substance
Used on Machines.
y. What did you go to see Schiff
for? A. We nad a baseball wager
and I went there to talk to him about
it.
Q. How many minutes did vou staj
at the Busy Bee?—A. I can not tell
exactly.
Q. But you do know what time you
went to the poolroom?—A. Yes.
y Did you talk to anyone at the
poolroom?—A. Yes. McMurray.
y. Where did you go from Devore’s?
A. Tin* Atlanta Theuter.
Q. How long did you stay?—A.
About fifteen-minutes. 1 bought tick
ets for the night.
Q. Where did you go then?—A.
Back, to Devore’s.
y. Who is John Lamey?—A. H»
worked with me.
y. Did you go to the factory Sun
day?—A. Yes.
y. Whom did you talk to?—A. Mr.
Darley and Mr. Montag.
Q. How lonr did you look at the
body?—-A. Three or four minutes.
y. Did you see Mr. Frank Sunday?
—A. Yes.
y. At Bloomfield’s?—A. Yes.
y. How was he dressed?—A. fn
blue of black.
y What is the purpose of that
white preparation used at the plant?
—A. To clean the machines.
Carried in Buckets,
Spatters on Floors.
carried?—A. In
Fixed Time by
Going to Market.
Q Why do you fix the time at that?
A Well, when I left hom e 1 was anx
ious to get up town before the meat
markets closed. I left home at 15
minutes to 12. Doing the things I
did. 1 judge it was about 12:20 o’clock
when 1 got to the factory.
Q. You say you left home at 11:45,
did you look at your watch?—A. Yes.
Q. What time did you want to get
to town?—A. Before 12. because I was
afraid the stores would be closed.
Q. How long did It take you to walk
to the market?—A. About twelve min
utes.
Q What time was it when you got
there? \ The whistle blew while I
was there.
y. ('an you tell how long you re
mained there?—A. No.
Q. You '.vent to the pharmacy from
there?—A. Yes.
Q. How far was that from the mar-
y. How was
buckets.
y. It spatters over everything?—A.
Yes.
y. Did you see Frank Monday?—A.
Yes, Monday afternoon.
Q. How was he dressed?—In brown.
Q. Look at this picture (showing the
witness the State’s diagram drawn by
Bert Green of The Georgian). Does it
show Mary Phagan’s machine?—A.
No.
y. Point out the place where Bar
rett claims to have found the hair.
Did you find any blood there?—A. No.
y. Do you recall the place near the
closet where the negro said he found
the body? — A. Yes.
y. Did vou see any blood there 0 —A.
No.
y Well, if somebody bad washed
up blood in one place would it no,,
have been the reasonable thing to
wash it up in another?
"I object.” said Dorsey. “That's a
question for argument, your honor.
• It's such a good argument,” said
Arnold, "that I could not help it. I
withdraw the question."
Court took a recess until 2 o’clock.
The cross-examination of Ouinn was
to be taken up immediate^- then.
State Seeking Flaws
In Quinn Testimony.
Argument on Admissibility
Of Evidence Resumed.
The argument on the inadmisibility
of Dr. uwens .ostimonv was resumed
with the opening nf the afternoon ses
sion. Attorney Rosser addressed the
court.
"The rule at the beginning of this
hearing was that we would be per
mitted to introduce any evidence that
would Und to shed light on the mys
tery.” he said.
Attorney Rosser at this juncture
read a Georgia decision, tending to
show evidence of this kind as being
admissible. Judge Roan interrupted.
"That part of it is all right. Mr.
Rosser/’ he sai l “The only point is
whether the conditions are similar."
Rosser: “All right, ycur honor, I
will read you sjim authorities on that
point.”
Attorney Rosser read a decision in a
case in which such an experiment had
been allowed in which the jury could
make allowances for the differences.
"We will show that this man walked
as fast as he could,” said Rosser. "Is
it possible that this court could have
so far forgotten its common sense as
to permit this Jury to draw its own
conclusions?”
Rosser Pleads for Test.
“Only God Almighty can made iden
tity," Rosser continued, ‘and He has
n’t done it yet. There are no tw r o
leaves alike in the forest. I said a
while ago that it was a one-horsed
lawyer who wrote the opinion cited
by my friend Dorsey. With a few
exceptions, you and I know the au
thors of law books have not common
sense enough to make a living prac
ticing law.
"I don’t think any more unsound
principle of law could be embodied
in the statutes than the one involved
here, and 1 don’t want to get In the
contempt of the Supreme Court and
the Court of Appeals. A man’s life is
involved and important light might
be excluded. One of the cases 1 was
just shoving you said in cases of dis
similarity that the judge shall instruct
the jury to make allowances.”
Dorsey took up the argument.
"I take no issue with Mr. Rosser,”
said the Solicitor, "about this Geor
gia case by the Court of Anpeals. That
was an expert matter—the question of
how long it would take to stop an
engine. In the Moran case it was
a question of whether a t'tick was a
deadly weapon or not. It was de
clared to be a case not admitting
opinion evidence. The Jury was just
as capable of judging as the wit
ness.”
Raises Question of Strain.
Judge Roan: "They propose to
prove by Dr. Owens how long it took
persons he watched to go through the
htings Conley said he went through
with. He ; s to state facts. 1 won’t
permit any opinion and 1 don’t want
to hear any more authority on it. It
is a questlo of whether they can go
through substantially the same things
as Conley said he did as regards
speech, pressure, etc.”
Dorw*y: “Who can imagine the
pressure they were under after mur
dering a little girl?”
Arnold: "All during this trial we
have admitted this kind of evidence.
We had policemen to say they had
sat in the toilet and tried to see hern
much of the body of Mary Phagan
N« w t Lee could see. We asked the
policemen they asked the man.”
Judge Roan: "Mr. Arnold. I don’t
want anything on that. 1 want to
know whether there is enough simi
larity between the cases for the Jury
fo draw its own conclusions.”
Arnold: "We know, .wour honor."
Judge Roan: "Well this man don’t
know how long Conley stood over the
body.’’
Arnold: “We think that negro’s
statement was sufficiently graphic us
to detail to admit of the comparison."
Judge Admits Evidence.
Judge Roan: "1 have some doubts
about it. but I will give the defendent
the benefit of tlte doubt and allow the
evidence to be admitted."
The Jury was ordered brought in.
Lemmie Quinn was then recalled
to the stand. Attorney Arnold con
tinue,! direct examination.
Q. Where are you working now?—
A. At the pencil factory.
Dorsey took the witness on cross-
examination
Q When did the last man bleed on
the second floor?—A. The last man
dangerously hurt was a year ago.
Q. Was that a year from now. or
a year from the date of the murder?
—A. I mean just what I said.
Q. Can’t you tell us the truth about
it?
Arnold: "He has answered the
question.”
Dosey: "I am cross-examining
the witness.”
A. I can't tell you the exact time.
Q. When was the last time you no
ticed blood from this man?—A. Some
Q. Why was It that you said it was
between 12 and 12:30, and that you
arrived at the poolroom at 12:25, and
now say you arrived at Frank’s of
fice between 12:20 and 12:25 and ar
rived at the ooolroom at 12:30?—A. I
overlooked part of it.
Q. Didn’t they ask vou if you could
be definite and you said you never
looked at a clock until you got to
the poolroom?—A. Yes.
Q. I will ask you now' about tin
back door. Was It locked or barred?
A. Closed.
Q. On May 12, in the presence of
Detectives I^anford. Starnes and my
self, did you not sign this statement?
—A. Yes
Q. Well, didn’t you say that there
was a bar on that doot that cut off
communication from the upper floor
and didn’t you s~y it was customarily
kept closed?—A. yes
Q. New, didn’t I .go further with
you and say this: "That the door that
leads from the office floor to the floor
above is kept closed,” and didn’t you
say, ’No, the door is closed with a
bar across it.” Now. isn’t that true?
—A. Yes.
Senators Take
Slap at House
The House of Representatives al
most unanimously turned down the
Senate Wednesday morning, when a
resolution introduced in the Senate
by Taylor, of the Third, requesting
the House to return a local bill abol
ishing the Board of Commissioners
of Appling County, was defeated.
Carter, of Appling, led the fight
against the resolution, declaring the
efforts of Senator Taylor to get the
bill back were merely an attempt
to discredit him in his home county,
and defeat all his bills.
Senator Taylor proposed to amend
Mr. Carter’s bill by adding a refer
endum clause. This Mr. Carter de
clared the people of his county do
not want.
Representative Hardeman, of Jef
ferson spo ekvigorously in favor of
the resolution. declaring its defeat
would be a grave discomfort to the
Senate. Mr. Pickert, of Terrell, de
clared the House should refuse the
request of the Senate and support
Mr. Carter, who, he said, is account
able to the people of his county.
The House passed the bill provid
ing for the popular election of United
States Senators, and for a temporary
appointment by the Governor.
Fire Spreading to
Buffalo Shipyards
BUFFALO. N. Y.. Aug. 13.—Fire
which broke out about 2g 45 in the
Knowlton warehouse is spreading to
the shipyards adjacent. Great dam
age is feared.
The destroyed building was filled to
the roof with rosin.
Socialist Fined by
Recorder in Mobile
MOBILE, Aug. 13.—W. M. Doyle,
striking machinist and Socialist, who
has been creating much comment by
his anarchistic utterances and his
publications, was fined $25 or 60 days
by Acting Recorder Robert Gordon in
the Recorder’s Court to-day for blocK-
ading the streets in Bienville Square
A large crow'd was attracted to the
courtroom by the trial and on account
of the feeling that was aroused over
the cast 1 , the Rev. Matthew Brewster,
rector of fashionable Trinity Episco
pal Church, signing his bond at the
time of his arrest.
LOW RATE EAST VIA
SEABOARD.
$20.95 Baltimore and return.
On sale August 22, 23. 24. Cor
respondingly low rates from other
points. New steel diners and
sleepers.
MEN AND RELIGION BULLETIN NO. 75.
Georgia’s Senate and Her Children
“And whoso shall receive one such little
child in my name receiveth me--
“Even so, it is not the will of your
Father who is in Heaven that one of these
little ones should perish.”
Matt. 18:5-14.
«"•
A child—
A girl—
All men would help her.
House Bill No. 4 will save girls who are children in years.
The PRISON COMMISSION has favored the Bill.
The PENITENTIARY COMMITTEE of the House has approved it.
The COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS with WHEATLEY of
Sumter as Chairman unanimously recommended its adoption carrying a
$30,000 appropriation.
And men believe that GOVERNOR SLATON approves the measure.
Yesterday, Tuesday, the HOUSE COMMITTEE ON RULES, whose
Chairman is the Speaker of the House, BURWELL, with BLACKBURN
of Fulton its Vice Chairman, put the Bill upon the calendar. Without
this, the measure would have been lost. Among those helping to pass it
were NUNNALLY of Floyd and SHUPTRINE of Chatham. And for it
BARRY WRIGHT did splendid service.
THE VOTE WAS 115 TO 46.
The forty-six who opposed it did not do so with the thought of harm
ing girls. They misunderstood. At heart—if they consider—they too
approved the JONES MILLS’ BILL establishing the ‘‘Georgia Training
School for Girls."
It is no one man’s measure—no group of men can claim it—it is a
law for the want of which girl children of Georgia have suffered.
You would not continue to hurt and degrade them—you, too, would
help.
To-day the Bill is in the Senate.
The COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS of that body, whose
Chairman is Senator W. W. STARK, now has it under consideration; and
the Senate RULES COMMITTEE will doubtless see that it is heard.
The President of the Senate, RANDOLPH ANDERSON, of Chat
ham, has long favored a Reformatory for girls in Georgia.
. And since the question of taxation and finances has been settled, the
only argument against the bill has been removed.
Of it, The Morning News of Savannah has rightly said:
‘‘It is hard to see how anybody can truthfully say that it would not
profit the State to spend $30,000 in that way.”
The Senate will doubtless pass the Bill as it was adopted by the
House, without an opposing vote.
All Georgia will approve.
The Executive Committee of
the Men and Religion
Forward Movement
i