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•MIA ATLANTA GEORGIAN ANT) NEWS.
DORSEY FIGHTS HARD TO BOLSTER UP DR, HARRIS’ EVIDENCE
Calling of More Medical Experts by State Materially Lengthens Frank Trial
Continued from Page 1.
he knew Mary Phagan and that she
was not on this car from Forsyth and
Marietta streets. Hla testimony, If
believed by the jury. Is extremely im
portant to the State, as it supports
the State’s contentions In two re
spects—first, that Mary Phagan go
off the car at Forsyth and) Marietta
streets, and, second, that the car wad
considerably ahead of time. Other
street car employees testified that it
was not unusual for the English ave
nue car, due at 12:07, to come in
ahead of the Fair street car, which is
due at 12:05.
Experts Corroborate
Harris’ Evidence.
Solicitor Dorsey, successful in his
endeavor to re-open the question of
the time Mary Phagan met her death
aa judged by the condition of the
food found in her stomach, gathered
a brilliant array of stomach and in
testinal specialists Wednesday to lead
in an onslaught against the testimony
of the experts called by the lawyers
for Leo Frank.
Dr. Clarence Johnson, a well-known
Atlanta specialist, on being asked a
hypothetical question embracing the
condition in which the cabbage In
Mary Phagan’s stomach was found,
gave it as his opinion that the girl
came to her death within an hour
after the digestion began.
This corroborated in a measure the
testimony of Dr. Harris, who esti
mated the time at from half to three-
quarters of an hour after the cabbage
had been eaten.
Dr. George M. Niles, who holds the
chair of gastro-enterology at the At
lanta Medical College, swore that di
gestion could not have progressed
more than an hour under the condi
tions described. He was quite posi
tive digestion had progressed less
than an hour.
Dr. John Funke, professor of path
ology and bacteriology at the Atlanta
Medical College, testified that he had
been shown sections of the organs of
Mary Phagan by Dr. Harris, a cir
cumstance which had not been made
known until this point in the trial.
The defense had charged that Dr.
Harris had made his experiments and
analysis in secret and had consulted
no other expert.
Dr. Funke later admitted that he had
not made the examination until about
a week ago after the charges had
been made and he had been asked by.
Dr. R. T. Dorsey, brother of the So
licitor. to inspect the specimens.
Asserts Girl Was
Criminally Attacked.
This expert corroborated Dr. Har
ris In his declaration that Mary Pha
gan was a victim of criminal vio
lence, but he fell somewhat short of
substantiating Harris on the time the
cabbage had been in the stomach be
fore the digestive processes had been
stopped by death.
Being pressed for a definite answer
on this point, he said:
“One can not say positively, hut it
is reasonable to assume that digestion
probably had progressed an hour,
maybe a little more, maybe a little
less.’*
Dr. Johnson was extremely cautious
in his answers. He dictated his re
plies slowly and studiedly to the court
stenographer and picked his W’ords
and phrases most carefully.
He said first in reply to questions
by the Solicitor that it was his scien
tific opinion that the digestion of the
cabbage and brpad in Mary Phagan’s
stomach had stopped within an hour
after they were eaten. Attorney Ar
nold, however, got the expert to
change his answ r er to ‘within an hour
after digestion had begun.” forcing
, Dr. Johnson to admit that the begin
ning of digestion many times is de
layed by poor mastication or overdi
lution of the gastric fluids. The wit
ness would not undertake to say how
long it was before the first processes
of actual digestion had begun in the
case of Mary Phagan.
Much surprise was occasioned when
it w r as learned that Jim Conley had
been brought to the courthouse at
the command of Solicitor Dorsey. It
- was rumored that he would go on the
stand, but Solicitor Dorsey insisted
that he had him brought over merely
to have him identified by persons who
could swear to his good character
Defense Puts Up
Hard Battle.
A lively argument over the State’s
proposal to call three or four promi
nent physicians to controvert the
testimony of the defense's medical
experts marked the opening of the
Frank trial Wednesday.
Luther Rosser and Reuben Arnold
vigorously fought the introduction of
witnesses for this purpose in the
State's rebuttal. Solicitor Dorsey
maintained he had a perfect right to
develop ns much testimony along this
line as he wished.
The defense took the attitude that
all of their medical experts were call
ed only for the purpose of rebutting
the testimony of I)r. H. F. Harris,
secretary of the State Board of
Health, who will go down In the his
tory of the Phagan case as the wit
ness who professed to determine the
time that intervened between the time
that Mary Phagan left home and the
time she was killed by th<* condition
of some undigested cabbage in her
stomach.
Attorney Arnold argued tha if the
State had wished to obtain the testi
mony of other medical experts to
corroborate the statements of Dr.
Harris, they should have been called
in the original presentation of the
State's rase instead of in the rebuttal.
He said that the defense had not
attempted to cover any new points
through the physicians they had on
the stand and that these experts were
questioned solely with the purpose in
view of discrediting Dr. Harris.
Endless Process
Seen by Arnold.
"If this is to be allowed,” said Ar
nold, ‘it will mean that it is to be
simply an endless process. I never
heard of such a thing before. Jf
Mr. Dorsey is permitted to call all
the medical experts he wishes to
bolster up the testimony of Dr. Har
ris, I shall call back all of the ex
perts we had on the stand.”
The argument had its beginning
late Tuesday afternoon when Dr.
Clarence Johnson, a well-known At
lanta specialist, was called to the
stand Just before adjournment. Ros
ser and Arnold entered their objec
tions the instant that Solicitor Dor
sey began questioning the witness
along the same line that he had ques
tioned Dr. Harris when the State
presented Its case against the de
fendant.
"I Just want to question this man
in rebuttal of the denfense's wit
nesses,” Insisted the Solicitor. "They
testified that Dr. Harris was making
a wild and reckless guess when he
declared that Mary Phagan w-as killed
within three-quarters of an hour after
she ate and left home. I want to
prove by I)r, Johnson and the other
experts that I will call that this
declaration of Dr. Harris was based
on scientific principles that are well
known to the physicians who special
ize along those particular lines.”
The Solicitor said that he had plen
ty of authorities to uphold him in
his stand on the admissibility of the
testimony In rebuttal and asked the
judge to adjourn until Wednesday
morning so that he might have time
to look them up. The Solicitor got
Dr. Johnson to say before he left
the stand that I)r. Harris was premis
ing his statement upon substantial
physiological principles and that it
was in no sense a wild guess. It
was the plan to recall Dr. Johnson
to the stand again as soon as court
onened Wednesday.
Expert Permitted to
Answer State’s Query.
Dr. Clarence Johnson was called
and Solicitor Dorsey resumed his ar
gument on the admissibility of evi
dence supporting Dr. H. F. Harris.
•‘1 have this authority,” said Dor
sey. “It has been the well-recog
nized practice to follow this course. I
have not been able to put my hand
on a specific authority, though 1 have
looked for It for some time. How
ever, I think your honor will recall
that It is the uniform practice to al
low the State to make out a prima
facie case and go Into the whole thing
later. It is within the discretion of
the court to allow a rase to he reop
ened even after the State and the de
fense have rested.”
“What I want to know is.” said
Judge Roan, “if you want to reopen
this whole case.”
• 1 have a right to do that,” said
Dorsey.
“Where would this thing end?”
asked the judge. “They would have
the right to rebut."
“Of course the court would not al
low anything absurd.”
“What is more absurd,” asked Ar
nold. “than for the State to bolster up
its testimony after the matter is
closed? I know some judges who
have been elevated from the office of
Solicitor General who would allow the
State to bring in anything on rebut
tal. 1( this is to be reopened, we are
going to ask to be allowed to bring
hack our experts to go over the re
buttal. If Dr. Harris’ testimony needs
bolstering, he should have put up the
doctors at first.”
“A,s a matter of right,” said Judge
Roan, “you (Dorsey) have not any.
As a matter of discretion of the court
you have. I will exercise that discre
tion in your favor. Mr. Dorsey. You
may go on with the question.”
Girl Died Within Hour
After Eating Cabbage.
Solicitor Dorsey had the court ste
nographer read the hypothetical ques
tion about the length of time the
cabbage Mary Phagan ate had been In
her stoma<sh and whether a doctor
could determine anything definite
about the time of death or whether it
would be a wild guess.
The answer was:
"To answer that question under
the oath I have taken I would have to
know whether the pathologist was
thoroughly capable and employed the
most modern scientific methods.”
Q Well, arsume that he was, doc
tor?—A. If a capable pathologist
found there was only combined hy
drochloric acid wdth due considera
tion of other conditions as possible
factors, I would express in my opin
ion scientifically that the digestion of
the- bread and the cabbage was stop
ped within one hour, after eating.
The witness then addressed the
court:
“Your honor, T would like to have
my answer read to me by the ste
nographer.” The request w*as granted.
Q. Is every stomach a law unto
itself?—A. No.
Arnold took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. What are some of the other pos
sible factors?—A. I didn't say that.
Q. What did they say. then?—A. I
said there were probable factors in
the cut on the head and strangula
tion.
Q. Well, how would that affect di
gestion?—A. Anything that disturbs
the circulation of the blood would af
fect digestion.
Q. What did you mean by me
chanical conditions?—A. The thick
ness of the Btomach, the size and the
general appearance.
Q. Do you consider the color test
reliable?—A. Yes.
O. It depends entirely on the eye
of the man?—A. Not. exactly.
Q. If a man were color blind would
it affect the test?—A. Why, of
course.
Says Digestive Juices
Disappear After Death.
Q. . Now this acid has an ascending
and descending scale, hasn’t it?—A.
Yes.
Q. What is the highest degree of
acttvtty?—A. Do you want my ex
perience?
Q. No, the science.—A. I think
it varies from 30 to 40.
Q. What becomes of the pancreatic
Juices of the stomach after death 9
—A. There are no pancreatic juices
of the stomach. They are In the in
testines.
Q. Well, what becomes of them aft
er death?—A. They would lose the
chemical property in time, but the
physical pancreatic juice would re
main.
Q. What becomes of free hydro
chloric acid after death?—A. When
the stomach disintegrates it disap
pears.
Q. Rut tell |ne, doctor, what be
comes of the free hydrochloric acid
after death regardless of time?—A. It
eventually disappears.
Q. What delays the beginning of
the digestive process?—A. If mas
tication was not good, or rather very
bad, it would be delayed.
Q. Would walking delay it?—A.
Not unless it was a tiring walk.
Q, Well, when you answered Mr,
Dorsey’s question, you only meant one
hour from the tijne digestion started
and not how long it had been in the
stomach?—A. Yes.
Q. You said, as 1 remember it. that
digestion began within an hour and
was arrested?—A. 1* prefer to have
my answer read.
Q. The stenographer is taking every
word you are saying. He will do you
justice.—A. It is not justice for my
self I want. I want to do justice to
all.
“Yes. I know that,” said Arnold,
and, continuing:
Q. Could you tel! by looking at
that cabbage how long digestion had
been delayed?—A. In my laboratory
I could tell exactly. Here It would
only be an estimate.
Witness Declines to
Guess at Anything.
Q. You mean a guess?—A. I don’t
guess at anything.
Q. You never made any test on
Mary Phagan's stomach?—A. No.
Q. You are simply testifying w’hat
possibly might have been done**—A.
I am simply testifying to scientific
truth.
The witness was excused and Dr
G. M. Niles, another stomach and in
testinal specialist, and a professor at
the Atlanta Medical College, and also
author of a book on pellagra, was
summoned. Dorsey questioned him?
Q. Does science recognize that
every' stomach is a law unto itself?—
A. Every healthy normal stomach has
certain fundamental relations to all
other healthy normal stomachs.
In answer to the hypothetical ques
tion embracing the case of Mary
Phagan, Dr. Niles answered: “In
the orderly process of the course of
digestion, there should be pure hy
drochloric acid in the course of one
hour. I am answering my question
without regard to any psychic or
physical shock. I am not going so
much by the appearance of the cab
bage as the statements of the re
sults of the laboratory tests.”
Q. What have you to say about
LEO FRANK’S MOTHER
j. ON HER WAY TO COURT
MRS. REA FRANK.
variations of diseased stomachs?—A.
There are wide variations. Stomachs
have ldiosyncracies, but where they
are very marked I would not call
them normal.
Q. There is nothing that differs so
much as individual digestion, is there?
—A. 1 would say that a man’s tem
peramental view' of life differs more
than that.
Q. How long does it take cabbage
to digest?—A. 1 can not answer that
question absolutely.
Q. Don’t you know what the book«
say—from four to four and one-half
hours?—A. 1 can not answer that
specifically.
Q. What Is the longest time you
have known cabbage to remain in a
fairly normal stomach?—A. Four or
five hours.
Q. You found it there in a normal
stomach five hours, haven’t you?—A.
The remains of it.
Q. Is starch one of the carbo
hydrates?—A. Yes.
Q. Then cabbage is a carbohy
drate?—A. Yes.
Cabbage Had Not Been
In Stomach Three Hours.
Q. Then the digestion should begin
In the mouth?—A. That is the pre
liminary mechanical process.
Q. Well then, in a normal stomach,
if the cubbage were not well masti
cated it would be there some time
before the stomach started work,
wouldn’t it?—A. No, I would say the
stomach got busy immediately.
Q. You would not say how long that
cabbage was in that little girl’s stom
ach, would you?—A. 1 would not.
Q. Now, look at that cabbage and
tell me whether It might not have
been there three hours or more.
Dr. Niles looked at the cubbage
several minutes and said: "No; if it
had been in the stomach three hours,
it would have been more pulverized."
Q. Now. if this little girl ate that
cabbage bolted it down in a hurry
to get to town and see the parade,
would you say that that circumstance
delayed digestion?—A. Well, if she
was hungry and took any pleasure in
eating the meal, the mastication or
lack of it would not make any great
difference.
Q. Then mastication does not make
any great difference?—A. It certain
ly does.
Q Did you make any examination
of the stomach?—A. No.
Q. You made none of the tests?—
A. No.
Q. Do you know that the doctor
who made the examination did mot
save any of the contents of the
stomach?—A. I read it.
Q. Did you know' that he did not
call any physician in to help him?—
A Yes.
Q. That he did not divulge any of
the findings until he came here?—A.
Yes.
Q. That he kept those findings se
cret?—A. Yes.
Q. That we only have his plain
unsupported statement?—A. Yes.
Dr. Harris Not Guilt
Of Breach of Ethics.
Dorsey took the witness.
Q. Is there any set of ethics that
praohiblts those things?—A. I never
heard of it.
The witness was excused and Dr.
John Funkie. who holds the chair of
pathology and bacteriology at the
Atlanta Medical College where he
graduated twelve years ago, was
called to the stand. Dorsey ques
tioned him concerning an examina
tion made of Mary Phagan’s body,
and then pronounced his usual hypo
thetical question about the cabbage.
A. About the cabbage, I would not
like to say positively that with the
conditions found in the laboratory
test taken into consideration, that
the first six feet of the small intes
tines were clear, and If there was
found 32 degrees of combined hydro
chloric acid, I would say the cab
bage had been there an hour, maybe
a little more or less.
Arnold toqk the witness.
Q. When Aid Dr. Harris come to
you in regard to this exabination ?—
A. He didn’t come to me. I was asked
to look Into it last Saturday.
Q. Who asked you?—A. Dr. Dor
sey. the brother of the Solicitor.
The witnes was excused and Dorsey
tendered a telegram from Leo M.
Frank to Adolph Montag. in New
York, on April 28, as evidence. This
telegram read:
Atlanta. Ga.. April 28. IP 13.
Adolph Montag. Imperial Hotel.
New York. You may have read
in Atlanta papers of factory girl
found daad Sunday morning in
cellar of pencil factory. Police
will eventually sedve it. Assure
mv uncle I am all right in eai»e
he asks. Our company has case
well in hand.
LEO M. FRANK.
O. M Rattle, manager of the Pos
tal Telegraph Company was called.
Dorsey au.stloned him.
Q. Up April dvl either Frank
or the Ndtionul Pencil Company do
business with you?—A. I could not ^
say.
Q. Did Frank 4end a telegram
through your company on April It ?—
A 1 have one dated April 29.
“I made a mistake,” said Dorsey.
‘‘It was April 28. It waj received
April 29. I Just put him up because
he said he could not divulge anything
except In court.” The witness was
excused.
W. G. Peeples. of tlie Western
Union Telegraph Company, was
called.
Q. Did the Western Union Tele
graph Company have any telegrams
sent by Leo M. Frank on April 26, 27
or 28?—A. No.
Q. Did your company have any on
the dates covered by the subpend
duces tecum?—A. Yes.
Q. Let me have them.
Dorsey looked at the telegrams and
said:
“Your honor, these are not signed
by Frank and 1 don’t care to intro
duce them.”
Girl Says Frank’s
Character Is Bad.
Miss Myrtice Cato was the next
witness called. Dorsey questioned her.
Q. Are you acquainted with the
general character of Leo M. Frank?—
A. I am.
Q. Is it good or bad?—A. Bad.
Q. Did you work at the National
Pencil Company?—A. I did.
Q. When?—A. For about three and
one-half years up to \pril 28, 1913.
Q. On what floor did you work?—A.
Fourth.
Dorsey turned to Rosser.
"She is with you,” he said coolly.
"Come down,” said Rosser.
Miss Maggie Griffin was called to
the stand. Dorsey questioned her.
Q. Were you acquainted with the
general character of Leo M. Frank
prior to April 26?—A. Yes.
Q. Was it good or bad?—A. Bad.
Q. Did you work at the National
Pencil Factory?—A. Yes, for two
months.
Q. On what floor?—A. Fourth.
Rosser took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. Where did you work?
Dorsey interrupted to say: “I
haven’t finished. I have another ques
tion yet.”
Q. Are you acquainted with Frank’s
character for lasciviousness? That
is, his conduct toward women? I
don’t want you to answer until the
Judge rules. Your honor, doesn’t
the fact that he denies certain charges
make my question admissible?
Rosser: “Let the Jury retire if he
is going to argue this, but your honor
has already ruled.”
The Jury left the room.
Judge Roan: “Mr. Dorsey, give
me some authority on that.”
Dorsey: “We don’t need any au
thority for that. The defendant’3
own statement makes it admissible.”
Dorse* looked on his table for a
copy of Frank’s statement, but did
not find it. He continued addressing
the court:
“While this jury is out I want to
say that I want to put up a witness
who will say she saw Frank go In
the dressing room on the fourth floor
with a woman.”
Rosser: “You have already ruled
on that.”
Dorsey: “This is a specific instance
to rebut and impeach the statement
of the girls on the fourth floor. We
want to show that he went into that
dressing room with a forelady.”
Judge Roan: “You can show his
general character for lasciviousness.
I don’t know about the other. You
will probably have to call the woman
and put the question to her and then
seek to impeach her.”
The jury was ca ’ed back.
Rosser—Your honor rules here on
a trial for a Georgia murder that the
Solicitor can ask about the defend
ant’s character for lasciviousness?
Judge Roan—I do.
(Swears Frank’s Relations
With Women Are Bad.
The jury returned to the courtroom
at this time. Dorsey continued the
questioning.
Q. I will ask you if you are ac-
quanited with Frank’s general char
acter for lasciviousness—his relations
with women?—A. Iam
Q. What is it? Good or bad?—A.
Bad.
Rosser took the witness.
Q. How many girls did you know
on the fourth floor?—A. Four.
Q. Where do you work now?—A.
Fulton Bag and Cotton Mills.
Q. Where do you live?—A. No. 84
Evans Drive.
The witness was excused and Miss
Cato was recalled. Dorsey ques
tioned her in regard to Frank’s gen
eral character for lasciviousness and
she declared that it was had.
Rosser took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. Where do you work now?—A. At
Cone’s drug store, Decatur and Pryor
streets.
Q. Where do you live?—A. At No.
59 Tumlin street.
The witness was excused and Mrs.
Marion Dunning was called to the
stand. Dorsey quevStioned her.
Q. Are you acquainted with Leo M.
Frank’s character?—A. Yes.
Q. Is it good or bad?—A. Bad.
Q. Are you acquainted wdth his
general character for lasciviousness—
his relations with women?—A. No.
Q. When did you work at the pen
cil factory?—A. About two years ago.
Q. For how long?—A. Two weeks.
Not Much Acquainted
With His Character.
The witness was not cross-ex
amined. Mrs. H R. Johnson. of
Stonewall, was called to the stand.
Mrs. Johnson declared she worked at
the pencil factory for two months in
1910. Dorsey questioned her.
Q. Are you acquainted with Frank's
general character?—A Yes.
Q. Is it good or bad?—A. Rad.
Q. Are you acquainted with his
general character for lasciviousness?
—A. Not very well.
Dorsey—Answer yes or no.
Rosser—She has answered.
Dorsey—All right, she has said not
very much.
Rosser took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. Where is Stonewall?—A. On the
street car line.
Rosser—Uome dow n.
Dorsey—Just a minute. What floor
did you work on?—A. The fourth
floor.
The witness was* excused and Miss
Marie Karst, of No. 191 Kelly street,
was called. Dorsey questioned her.
Q. Have you ever worked at the
pencil factory?—A. Yes. On the sec
ond floor about two years ago.
Q. Are you acquainted with Frank*.--
haracter?—A. Yes.
Q Is it good or had?—A. Bad.
The w itness said the general char
acter of Frank for lasciviousness was
bad.
She was not cross-examined.
Mm L. T. Corse y was called but
did not answer. It was stated that
she was sick. Miss Nellie Pettus was
<*alled. Dorsey questioned her.
Q. Do you know Leo M. Frank?—A.
Yes. • . ,
Q. How long have you known him
—A. I didn’t know him exactly, ex
cept I knew him when I saw him
and knew about him.
Q. Was his character good or bad 1
—A. Bad.
Q. Did you know his general char
acter for lasciviousness?—A. Yes.
Q. Was it good or bad?—A. Bad.
Q. Where did you work at the pen
cil factory?—A. I didn’t work there.
My sister-in-law worked there. She
hardly ever went there on Saturday
and I went there to get her ^ay.
Q. Who did you see there?
Rosser interposed an objection, but
was overruled.
A. I saw Mr. Frank once.
Rosser took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. Who is your stister-in-law?—A.
Mrs. Lillie May Pettus.
Q. Where did she live?—A. No. 9
Oliver street.
Q. Does she w'ork there now?—A.
No; she quit working there about
three weeks before the murder.
Witnesses Fail to
Answer When Called.
The witness was excused and the
following were called, but failed to
answer: Mrs. T. C. Harrison, Miss
Pearl Dobson and Thomas Black-
stock. Miss May Davis. No. 3 Louis
avenue, an employee of the pencil
company, said Frank’s character was
had. Rosser cross-questioned her,
asking but one question:
Q. Where do you work now?—A. I
am not working now.
Mrs. Mary E. Wallace, an elderly
woman in mourning, was called.
Dorsey questioned her.
Q. Did you ever work at the Na
tional Pencil Factory?—A. Yes;
three days.
Q. When?—A. July, 1911.
Q. Did you know Leo Frank's gen
eral character?—A. Yes.
Q. Was it good or bad?—A. Bad.
The witness declared that Frank’s
general character as to lasciviousness
was bad. The witness was not cross-
examined.
Estelle Winkle was next called to
the stand. She said that she worked
at the pencil factory for one week
in March, 1910. She said that Frank's
character was bad. On cross-exami
nation she said she was not working
now, and gave her residence as be
ing twelve miles from Griffin.
Miss Carrie Smith was the next
witness. The rapidity with which she
was chewing gum created a ripple of
laughter in the courtroom, and depu
ties were forced to rap for order.
The witness testified that she worked
on the fourth floor of the pencil fac
tory, and that Frank’s character was
bad. She was not acquainted with
his character for lasciviousness. On
cross-examination she said she re
sided at No. 257 Simpson street, and
that she worked for the factory off
and on for three years, working there
the last time about three weeks after
Christmas.
Miss Ruth Robinson was the next
witness. Dorsey questioned her.
Saw Frank Speak to
Mary About Her Work.
Q. Did you ever work at the pen
cil factory?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you know Mary Phagan?—
A. Yes.
Q. Did you know Frank?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever see Frank talk
ing to Mary Phagan?—A. Yes.
Q. What were they talking about?
—A. Her work.
Q. Well, how often did he talk
to her?—A. Several times.
Q. What would he do?—A. Show
her how to fix pencils.
Q. How would he do it?—A. Just
take pencils and show her.
Q. Did you ever hear him speak
to Mary Phagan ?-i-A. Yes.
Q. What did he call her?—A
Mary.
Rosser took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. Are you sure of that?—A. Yes
The witness was excused, and Miss
Dewey Hewell was called. Dorsey
questioned her.
Q. Where are you located now?—
A. In the courthouse.
Q. I mean, where were you before
you came here?-—A. Do you mean
where my parents live?
Q. Yes: whero do you live?—A.
No. 8 Porter street.
Q. Where are you living now?—A.
In Cincinnati at the Home of the
Good Shepherd.
Says Frank Put Hand
On Mary Phagan’s Shoulder.
Q. What sort of a home is that—
no, never mind that. Did you work
at the National Pencil factory during
Februarv and March, 1913?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever see Frank talk to
Mary Phagan?—A. Yes.
Q. How did he act?—A. He would
come to her machine and put his hand
on her shoulder.
Q. What would he say?—A. He
would put his face close to hers and
call her “Mary.”
Rosser took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. You didn’t work in the meta!
room very long, did you?—A. Abou:
two weeks.
The witness was excused and Miss
Rebecca Carson was recalled. Dorsey
questioned her.
Q. Did you ever go into the dress
ing room on the fourth floor with
Mr. Frank?—A. I never did.
]>orsey—Come down.
Miss Myrtice Cato was recalled.
Dorsev requested her not to answer
the question he was going to put un
til the court ruled nnon it.
Q. Did you ever see Frank go into
the dressing room on the fourth floor
with Miss Rebecca Carson?
Rosser interposed with an objec
tion, but the witness answered ‘‘Yes,”
before he could stop her.
“That Ain’t All I
Know," Says Witness.
The objection was not forced.
Q. How often did you see it?—A.
Three or four times, and that ain’t ad
I know.
Rosser took the witness on cross-
examination.
o. Who was on the floor w r hen you
saw that?—A. Several women.
Dorsey took the witness again.
Q. How r did you see It?—A. I was
in that end of the building.
The witneMs was excused and Miss
Maggie Griffin w r as recalled in re
buttal of Miss Carson’s testimony.
Dorsey questioned her.
Q. Did you ever see the defendant
and Miss Rebecca Carson go into the
dressing room on the fourth floor?—
A. Yes; three or four times.
Q. How long a period did that cov
er?—A. Sometimes they wculd stay
in there about fifteen minutes and
sometimes about thirty minutes.
Rosser—We must oppose that.
Judge Roan—The objection is sus
tained.
Q. What time in the day was it?—
A. Sometimes in the morning and
sometimes in the evening.
Ros. 4 *er—We are objecting to it all.
The court sustained the objection
again.
Says Car Ran
Ahead of Schedule.
The witness was excused and Hen
ry A. Hoffman, inspector for the
Georgia Railway and Electric Com
pany, was called. Dorsey questioned
him.
Q. Do you know Matthews, who
runs on the English avenue line?—A.
Yes.
Q. Who is he under?—A. He is un
der me from 11:30 until he goes to
dinner.
Q. Was he under you April 26?—
A. Yes.
Q. For what time?—A. Thirty-seven
minutes.
Q Is there any set schedule such
as 12:07 1-2?—A. None on the board.
Q. Prior to April 26, were you ever
on his car when he cut off the Fair
street car?—A. Yes.
Q. What was the time the Fair
.street car was due to arrive?—A.
12:05.
Q. At the time Matthews cut off
the Fair street car. was the Fair
street car on time?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever compare watches
with Matthews?
Arnold objected, but said he would
not argue the point. His objection
was overruled.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever And Matthews
when his watch was not with yours?
—A. Yes
Q. How far off was he?—A. Thirty
or forty seconds.
Q. Did you ever call his attention
to running ahead of time?—A. Yes.
Q. Do they come in ahead of time
often?—A. At lunch and supper, near
ly always.
Three Minutes Ahead of
Time at Noon.
Rosser took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. You don’t remember whether he
was ahead of time April 26, or not,
do vou?—A. No.
Q. Do you discharge a man for be-
Continued on Page 10, Column 5.
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