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May 22i M - WILUE & Co.
BRITISH PARLIAMENT.
House of Lords.
February 17.
The order of the day being read,
Lord Grenville rose and spoke to
the following effect :
“My Lord h, it will be in your
lordships recollection, that towards
the close of the last session of
Parliament, I gave notice of mv
intention of making a motion sim
ilar to the one I am about to pro
pose for rhe consideration of this
House. For this purpose it was,’
the manufactures and merchants
affected by the ruinous consequen
ces of your orders in council, were
summoned and gave evidence at
the bar, which completely and ful
ly proved the impolicy of those
measures. Rut I had reasons to
suppose at the time, what was the
strongest wish of my heart, that
means would then be resorted to,
by which the differences bet ween
this country and America might
be placed in a situation most like
ly to produce reconciliation. This
consideration induced me to relin
quish the motion of which I gave
notice oa the occasion ; & when,
my lords I retired from this house,
it would have been a consolation
to my mind, if what had been then
already known in respect to the
pernicious effect of these orders,
and what has since resulted , had
led to tiie adoption of more just
and wiser counsels. <Jn the con
trary, we find the same conduct
persevered in ; his majesty’s min
isters persist in this blind policy,
which renders it necessary for me
to bring this subject again under
your solemn investigation. It
might be found, upon loruier oc
casions, that the expediency of this
Hue ol conduct towards America
was a question of argument ; hut
it has now ceased tobe so ; no pre- |
text can bc set forth to do away j
tnuse facts which irresistibly prove
the enervating calamities growing
out of the orders in council. li
we revert to the end of that disas
trous war which raged between the
two coumries, and review the pro„
cecdiug* of government in respect
to America 111 17814, and Irom that
period down to the present admin
istration, every endeavor was made
that all disputes might cease, all
past prejudices obliterated, and
complete harmony be established
between the two countries. The
wisdom of conciliating America
naturally presented iiaeit ; that
country was ueaily allied to us,
aud many events might take place
10 make it one of the most impor
tant interests of Great Britain to
have America our it lend.
jkud when the late war broke
out oa the continent, it was not ou
fj my own firm conviction, but it
was the particular care of Mr. Tilt,
to take every *tcp to put au end 10
all differences which ictnaincu un
billed, being certain of the pru
dence on our part, to u*e every
meant of strengthening the bonds
ol amity between the two nations.
1 had reason to feel happy, *»ot on
ly in btiug so disposed, but iu hav
ing the opportunity of being assist
ed in this pursuit by the ability of
so great a statesman. It was also
one ol the first considerations, ou
the parts of myself and colleagues,
in the late administration, to has
ten the completion of what had
been so wisely begun ; and, under
, the management of a uobic lord
near me, it wa» confidently hoped,
that ever) prior dispute would
tiicn be happily adjusted, and a ,
treaty, disauvantageoua to neither, 1
Out mutually advantageous to bom
was agreed upon between the two
couultics. boou after, every en
gine was set to work, every means
was resorted to by those who ap
prove of the present proceeding*,
10 make it believed a treaty had
been negotiated, inimical to our
“ HOLD THE MIRROR UP TO NATURE.” ShakcSptarC.
mercantile interests: But, my
ordi, I will venture to say »hat
here was not the smallest part of
he treaty alluded to disadvanta
geous to commerce, but was actu
dly more advantageous than what
had since been required on the part
of hi* majesty’s ministers. Before
the terms of that treaty were known
they were condemned by those
who wish to drive the two coun
tries into hostility. In discussing
the present question, the first point
and most material feature which I
shall first mention, is the state,
ment which lias been recently
made, relative to the proposal of
America for rescinding our orders
in council, and reversing the de
crees of France. How such a
statement should be made from
such an authority as the noble Se
cretary of State, and so contrary
to the fact, is to my mind incom
prehensible. But, my lords, in
the course of this evening, [ pledge
myself to clear this part of the A
merican conduct from the shadow
of a doubt. I will shew you from
documents now on your lordship’s
table, a satisfactory contradiction
to this studied misrepresentation.
(Hear! Hear' from the mioiste
rial side.) I mean to convey no
personal allusion to the noble Se
cretary, but it was certainly declar
ed that America, in her propssals,
exhibited a disposition partial to
wards France, and hostile towards
this country- Here it become* me ,
in justice to the character of the
person who presides in the United
States, to retract a inistatemcnt,
for God forbid I should not do so,
and particularly when 1 complain
of the mistatement of other# ! I
did think, from the information I
then possessed, his conduct was
not unworthy of approbation, in
shewing* preference to the cause
of France. But it was not so;
the speech imputed to hitn was not
true, and it was for noble lords op.
posite to have corrected all mis.
takes on the subject. My lords, it
may well he remembered, when
the present administration had suc
ceeded in their desired and favor
ite object ot filling the situations
which they now occupy, their first
step was to manifest by all possible
means, their determination to pur.
sue a line of conduct completely con.
tradictory to that pursued by their
predecessors. Happy, my lords
very happy do I feel, that there is
no resemblance between their
measures and those of their pre
decessors. lam far from being
happy because they have adopted
measures so contradictory ; but I
am happy iheir predecessors guid.
ed themselves by wisor counsels,
hr principles more just and more
conducive to] the welfare of these
dominions. They have fully e
vinced to the world their success
in this determination ; no contrast
can be more opposite than the
measures produced by the two ad
ministrations.
It was our province to conci
liate—-it ha# been theirs to irritate
—lt was ours to smooth over
difficulties, and produce a good
understanding and harmony be
tween this country and the Uni
ted States—it has been their stu
dy to foment dispute, to inflame
by injustice & outrage, U to drive
by force that country into open
war with ourselves. Their pre
decessors may feel consolation
that the whole of their conduct
j was different from that of the pre
sent ministers. It was different
in respect to Ireland, in respect
to the Continent, in respect to
neutral nations, in respect to do’
i tnestic policy, in respect to rata
; sures of finance, and must of all,
in respect to America. It will be
unnecessary to have recourse to
what has been on former occasions j
so repeatedly urged upon the pre- |
sent question, and I shall on that j
account conform myself to those
observations, which arise out of
the effects produced by the orders
of council. But at the same time
1 my conviction is the same ; the
opinion I before delivered is con
firmed by experiene, and is more
and more strengthened by the ac
cumulation of facts : I am fullv
conviced the policy of these me*-
j sure 9 betrays more egregious fol
| ly, and more confounded ignor
ence, than was ever manifested by
any set of men, conducting the as
: fairs of government. The avowed
object of these orders was declar- j
icdtobe, to counteract the unjust
decrees of the ruler of France ;
; I shall not now discuss the im.
j propriety of making such orders,
contrary to the laws and statutes
of the realm and in open and wan
ton violation of the sacred laws
| of nations, but shall next call your
! lordship’s attention to the propo
! sals themselves, made by the Uni
ted States of America. On the
23d of August last, in consequence
I of what had previously been com.
municatrd on this subject, be
tween the two countries, instre
tions were given to Mr. Pinkney,
the American minister, resident
in thu country to propose to his
Majesty’s government, that if the
or dcrsin council were rescinded in
respect to America, the embargo
would be taken off in respect to
us ; and if the enemy should not
repeal their decrees, the embargo
would be continued with regard to
them. The documents themselves
are on the table , and they fully
contradict the statement made, so
surprizingly made by these in
rsbose possession the documents
were at the very time , namely
that America, exhibited a favora
ble disposition towards the go
vernment of France, and in making
these proposals had promised
more to France, than to Great
Britain. But, my Lords, it is
by no means the case ; these do
cuments will enable me to prove
the reverse of that proposition. It
was well known to America, if
France alonfi had annulled her
decrees, still America would not
improve her situation as to the
embargo ; for it alic were to send
her numerous merchant vessels
to cover the seas, they woutd even
tually fail a sacrifice to the orders
in council. Therefore the only
prospect of advantage held out
to France was to this purpose ; re
scind your decrees with regard to
America, and if your enemy con
tinue their orders we shall even
tually be forced into a contest
with them. The proposal to G.
Britain was this j repeal your or
ders in council as they regard
America, and we will immediate
ly take off tile embargo with re
gard to you, & if your enemy con
tinue his decrees, we shall eventu-
ally be forced into a contest with
him, and probably it may lead to
an alliance with you, fur the pur>
pose ui prosecuting that cause in
which you arc now engaged with
Praucc. (litre his Lordship read
from the pi meed papers, the mes
sage of the President to the Con
gress, the instructions sent to
i*ir. Armstrong, in Pans, and to
iVir. Piukuey, London, together
with the different communications
made at a subsequent period ou
toe nature of these proposals, ail
which med Uic statement |
of his Lordsuip ; that particular** j
ly iu respect to the dcclarauou j
of hostility, the expressions made |
use of were the same in tubttauce
and almost the same in words.) 1
1 here cannot be the smallest
doubt but there u a studied simi
larity in the proposals to both, fur
the purpose of preventing any
partiality being manifested towards i
either, but how it should come !
to pass that such a daclaranon
should be made in this House, so i
; inconsistent with the documents
upon your Lordship's table, appea-s
i to me more unaccuuutablc when i
call your attention to a letter writ
ten by Mr. Caiiuiug, on me sub*
ijoettof tnesa piopostls, wherein
I
r,„, . a
[No. XXXIV.]
MONDAY, June 5, 1809.
he takes upon him to give his oj
pinion to the American minister on
this question and to communicate
the precise way to which he under
stood the proposals to have been
made. (“ What page in the
printed papers I” From the minis
terial side.) —No page mv Lords ;
it is not from the printed papers i
produce tiiis letter, but from an
American newspaper. The no
ble Lords opposite after every
j communication moved for, after so
many declarations of their readi
ness to grant the fullest information
have not thought proper to product
this letter ; why they omitted so
doing remains a mystery, and re*
quires explanation. This letter
proposes, for the sake of satisfy
ing the American minister and
also for the sake of preventing
any misapprehension, to state
in what sense these proposals were
understood by his majesty 7 * min
isters. The letter afterwards
proceeds to say, that it was fully
understood, that if the proposals
wer« agreed to on the part of the
kings government, America would
eventually arm her merchantmen
in the cause of tins country against
the government of France. (His
Lordship 1 1 e-re read -that parage
from Canning’s letter (He a r !
Hear !J 1 hia passage »** '*j rt ~*
contradiction of thejatitemenrgone
abroad from this House, and l
should feel glad, not i„ the com
mon acceptation of tuc h e sprits
sioas but from the bottom of my
heart, il the noble Secretary can so
far justify that statement/ by con
tradicting the truth 0 f t hi ß produc
tion, and shewing it to be au Arne
rican forgery. Still it is not only
this letter, but the whole of the do
cuments fully demonstrate the jus
tice, the tairness and equality
of these proposals to both the
belligerent, powers. His majes.
ty’s ministers returned an an
swer to these overtures from A
merica, which reflects disgrace
ou their conduct— It is not an
answer consistent with the decor
um or the tenor of diplomatic lau
guage ; but, for tho first time, de"
viaiing from the usage of the past
times, it contains that irony and
sarcasm, which ought never to be
employed on these occasions which
is highly ditrespectful to the na
don we address, and can produce
so eflect but that of wounding the
most tender feeling of our *py
America above all other nati 0D8 ‘
so lately risen into notice, wi.l f ee |
jealous of her independence, and
she has the same right to rei ur u
the same language she receded
from this country. The an swer
ot ministers suggested to Am enC |
that Uis majesty'* government
totally indifferent as to the em „
bargo being continued or taken
off , it did not effect tht* country ;
but ihey wished to extend th e i r [, c .
nevoience beyond the limit* Q f the
subject of this realm, an ( | (a^c
•ornc thought for the people c f
the United State*, and
a desire to relieve them fr 0 m the
injurious consequence* of ( h e em .
bargo. Wnat would nobl e L or( j g
opposite have said, if any observa
tion of irony and sacra*m had
been made towards this country
in a similar manner ? If the A
merican# had said we have no
choice ourselves, whether the or
ders in council be repealed or
not, we arc anxious only on ac
count of your distressed manu
factures in Lancashire, no doubt
existed of feeling with which auch
a declaration would have been
received in this kiugdom. When
this answer was read to the mem.
bers of the Assembly there was
a general cry from all that it
should be read again ; after which
was a great and tumultuous burst
of ludigoaiion against the uuwor.
thy and disrespectful language of’
the communication, {Hear / hear)
The answet returned by raiaistera
my Lords has a rsadeftcy to in
crease me degree «f crcau which