Newspaper Page Text
GONGHKSS.
House of Representatives.
April 13.
Dr. Bibb’s Speech
on the
Bill approving the means to a( cer
tain the title io the
BATTURK
•
Mr Bibb said he felt no dispo
sition to delay unnecessarily aeon
elusion of the subject, or to tres.
pass on tile patience of the com
in ttee. Indeed said he if my
gard for (he feeling* of otherscould
possibly permit m: from day to
day to address an assembly un
willing to hear (of which unfortu
nately for this body, and for the
nation we have too many example*)
I co life A ihe respect I feel for my
seit would forbid it. But, sir, cal
led upon to adopt a measure which
innovates on the established usa
ges of the country, sets a prece
dent the most dangerous and alar
ming, places the government un.
der the controu! ol intrigue, and
m my apprehension, sacrifices the
sovereignty of the nation on the
altar of inordinate speculation, I
cannot, nor will not be silent.
Pass this bill—pursue this ex.
traordinary course of proceeding,
and it becomes the entering wedge
which is to enable a horde of spe
culators who infest the capitol, &
distract the nation, to triumph over
the virtue of the country. Aud I
do believe that the bill it supported
by a portion of this assembly with
a view to that object. Yes dr, it
i* tlie object •pf some gentlemen *o
establish api ‘cedent in f-twor of
the Yazoo claimants, an & S w*»h it 1
to be understood. Can the.e who
are willing on die present occasion
to grant a privilege to IVIr. Living,
ston unhcai d of in the history of
this government, refuse with any
eoi't of consistency the same privi
lege to oilier intruders who have
been removed from the public
lands in the same way and under
the s.'sscse law. They canrat, nor
its it w**3sr its:cation to do lit is
wue, attempts have been made to
distinguish th« cast of the petiti
oner from that of the Yazoo clai.
manta who were removed from
land- ‘,n (It* .Mississippi Territory j
but whatever difference thcr e mi jy.
be in the origin of their claims,
none exists in the treatment the
individuals have received, no; can
any reasons he urged for granting
• a judicial trial in the one case,
Vjhich are not equally applicable to
Ihe other. But, air, we are told
that tile case of the petitioner in
volves the very existence of our
free government—that he lias been
removed from his property at the
point of the bayonet—and that if
such an example shall be sancti
oned by the representatives of the
people, every man in the nation
b comes a tenant at the w ill of the
Piesidcnt. li is not uiy purpose
to enquire wliy this case alone
should produce so much excite
ment when the removal of hun
dreds in ihe same way has passed
unnoticed ; but I will shew in the
course of niy remarks, that all we
have heard upon the subject is
mere declamation, and that the
t;aiful apprehensions which have
een expressed by some gentlemen
Are perfectly unfounded. As to
the appeals which have been made
to the sympathies of the commit
tee, and the charge which ha* been
urged of wanton oppression on tn e
part of the President towards this
hulivideal, they cannot leach my
feelings. How ever much 1 may
ieet fur the people us New Orleans,
who have been distuioed in the use
ct t'ie baituie, which they had
b e cu *ccustorrMtd to enjoy ever
since it existed, I have no sympa
thy (or the disturber of their re
pose. While the legislative and
executive departments of the gov
ernment have been using their best
endeavors to conciliate the alFcc-
N tions of those people, this man has
- not beep le»s busy in creating dis
. conttut among them, lie has been
. the evil genius of the territory,
end when genii, men undertake to
. declaim against the conduct of M r
' Jefferson, and in favor of hi» inno
cence, they should recollect the
circumstances under which he rc.
moved to N Orleans. It is impos
sible that .any naan m his senses
W ■ ■
can believe Mr. Livingston ha* ac
quired a just claim to the property
worth from half a million to one
million of dollars, the value of
which was as welt known to others
as to himself, when it is notorious
that he is a bankrupt—a public de- |
fanlter to a very large amount- — !
[Mr- Poindexter called Mr. B:bb
to order—Mr U- replied, sit down
sir, I a:n in order, you are not-]—
The Chairman, according to the
rule of the House, required Mr B.
to sit down, and Mr. P. to state
in writing the words objected to, i
which were “ it is notorious iliat ,
the petitioner is a bankrupt.” Mr.
B. had leave of the chair to ex
plain, H-e considered himself with
in the strict rule of order. His
object was to shew that the situa
tion of the petitioner rendered it
almost impossible that he could
have acquired a fair claim to the
property in question ; that it must
be a collusive speculation, and
therefore that he was not entitled
to the peculiar favor of the nation
al legislature. Indeed, said .Mr.
B. if I am not mistaken, he has
acknowledged the fact in his peti
tion, for mentioning which I have
been interrupted by the delegate
from the Mississippi territory:—
The Chairman declared Mr. B. to
be in order. Mr. Bibb then pro
ceeded to state, that whatever
claim Mr. Livingston had, might
have been submitted to the com
misMoners for the Orleans territo*
ly, who were authorised to decide
on land claims of every descripti
on ; and that, if his claim had been
laid before them he would not have
beea removed, pending a decision
upon it. The law (said be) which
required his removal from the bat
ture expressly provide* that per.,
sons holding complete titles may,
and the holders of incomplete ti
tles shall file their claims, and in
either case that they snail not he
disturbed in their possession until
the commissioners shall have re
ported to Congress- Mr. Living
ston was net contented with the
same priiibgcs which oth:r clai
mants enjoyed ; wfitb the tri
bunal, and the only tribunal lyhich
others could appeal. But, sir, t is
House is called upon to legislate
for hi* particular case ; to grant
him a peculiar and distinguished
privilege which has never before
been awarded io any man in this
nation. And why ? Because, hav
ing taken possession of the public
property, and refusing to submit
his claim to the commissioners who
had competent power and autho
rity to hear ami determine it, he
has been removed according to
law, at the point of the bayonet.—
j He canuot plead ignorance of the
flaw, and i repeat, that until June
\ 1809, he might have filed his claim
»cd had u decided before the same
tribunal, which decides on all oili
er land claims in the territory of
Orleans ; that if he had complied
with tlie requisitions of the law, he
would not have been removed ;
that having failed to do so, he hut,
acted in his own wrong, and his
removal by military force Iras been
the necessary consequence.
But, sir, there is another aspect
in which tins subject presents it„
sell, entitled to the most attentive
consideration of the committee
If my construction of the law for
i asceriaining and adjusting the ti-
J tics and claim* to land in the ter*
ritery of Orleam be correct, it is
j more than probable that this claim,
notwnhsianding it ha* not bseii
filed, is now opening before the
commissioners. That law after
enumerating many matters and
things which the commissioners
shall have power to examine arid
determine, adds the power to
“ decide them in a summery Way
according tq justice and equity on
. all claims filed with the register or
iecordcr in conformity with the
1 provisions of this act, and on all
I complete French or Spanish grants,
t the evidence of which, thotigh not
- thus fled , may be found of record
; on Hie public records of such
grants ” If the petitioner tias any
i colour of a title whatsoever, it casi
, be found of record, and therefore
» is fairly before the commissioners,
r That it was intended, Mr. Chair,
man, they should have tile power
to decide on perfect tides whether
. filed or not, is evident from a sub
• svqueut provision of the law which
r authorise* them not to consider a
grant conclusive evidence of thief* j
unless they are that such j
grant is neither antidated nor oth- I
erwise fraudulent. Now if their au,;
thority to decide, is limited claim*
only which are die.l, this provision
is wholly »uga*ory, because no man
j holding an aotidaied or fraudulent ;
Riant would ever think of filing it ,
If then they have the power toex- j
amine and decide this case, it has
became their indispensible durv to
exercise it. They were appointed
witli the powers of a court, bi t ex
. empted from the formalities of
courts for the purpose of detecting
fraud and collusion, and of adjust
ing in a summary way all disputed
claims to land within tl*e Territory
of Orleans. That this claim is
disputed the commissioners cannot
ignorant, and unless they
have been guilty of a dereliction of
duty, it must be at this mo
ment either decided or pend,
ing before them. This circum
stance alone affords a sufficient ob
jection to the passage of the bill
before you, at least until the com
missioners shall have made their
report to Congress. But sir, there
are other insuperable objections to
the bill. While it is admitted that
persons holding perfect titles are
not compelled to file them, no man
can deny that according to law
the claim of every holder of imper
fect title whiih was not filed be
tore June 1308, is forfeited. I. is
expressly enacted that the evi
dence of such claims shall never be
admitted iu any court ot the Uni
ted States. What is proposed to
be done by this bill ? Why sir, to
renew w'isitvef claim, right or ti
tle the petitioner may have lud,
and which by his own act has becu
forfeited, is there any evidence
before the House of a continuity
of perfect title to the property in
ijiesiion ? There is none, and if
gentlemen arc determined tosub“
mit this case to a judicial decision,
be it s<>; but do not adopt the
provtsious of this bill which in.
stead of auihoffasiog a trial ca tbe
merits ni the dUku as it sow osj.
i.sts, tv* 'j* rights, which kiaj, (Sure
b:cn forfeit?.;!
1 his would hv* an aft of in"
justice to other Claimants, and
to the people of the United
States to which 1 trust a ma
jority of this afiembly will not
consent. The amendment I
have proposed submits the case
to;the ordinary judical tribunal
without adding to, or taking
from the validity of the claim,
and places the petitioner pre
cifeiy on the ground he would
occupy, if the dispute were be
tween him and anv individual
in the Orleans Territory.—
Does jufiice demand that more
(liould be done ?• Certainly
not. The people of the United
States are one party, Mr. Li
vingston the other party, and
if the people of the U. S. con
lents to grant him a trial before
the fame tribunal which would
decide between individuals, j
I ask you (ir, whether in ;
common judice he can claim
any more ? To grant him j
any advantage he could not
other wife enjoy because the U.
States happen to be a r pariy in
the cale, would bcalTuming the
principle that less is due to the !
people in their aggregate capa
city than to an individual. The
truth is, that Congress alone
have the right to decide on the
claims of the nation, and if they
delegate the power to determine
in this calc to any court what
soever, it is an act of special fa
vor to the petitioner. Sir, if
fht ordinary course were pur.
sued on the present occasion,
we ihould examine the merits
of his claim and decide upon
it by resolving “ that the prayer
ol the petitioner is realonable
and ought to be granted,” or
“ unreasonable and ought not
to be granted,” Sc there would
be an end to the quedion.
When gentlemen undertake
to a fieri that it is not within the
province of Congrels to decide
claims of this delcription, they
finely forget that Congress a
lone have decided all such
claims from the commencement
of the government, and that no
other department has the pow
er to decide them. But the
gentleman from Va. (Mr Shes.
fey) tells you that by the con
ditution the judicial power ex
tends to all controversies to
which the United States are a
party, whether in the capacity
of plaintiff or defendant. This
is the firft time, fir, I ever heard
the opinion advanced that the
United States are suable. Per -
mit me to ask the gentleman
from Virginia, if the United
States are suable, why Mr.
Livinodon has not commenced
hisaßion againd them ? And
if Congress are not competent
to decide his claim, why his
petition has been presented to
this House ? [Mr. Sheffey
explained.] Mr. Bibb laid if
the gentleman abandons the
ground of the fuability of the
government I fhali fay noth
ing raoie upon the fubjeß. But
fir, fiich a doßrine is perfectly
incompatible with every idea
of sovereignty, and never has
been sanctioned in every coun
ty-
s
But, Mr. Chairman, the
great difficulties and differences
which have arisen in the pre
sent debate are the conlequence
of confounding the rights of
the dates which compoie this
union, with the rights of the
territories. Gentlemen have laid
that according to the conditu
tion, no man can be deprived
of his land without a trial by
jury, and therefore the removal
of the petitioner from the Bat
ture without such a trial was
and unconditional. I
admit the correßnefs of this
d ;Ctrine in its application to
the dates, but I deny it in rela
tion to the territories. The
condilution is a compact be
tween the dates—the ordinance
of 1787 is a compact between
the territories and the United
States, and is to the territories
what the conditu.ion is to the
dates. Political Sc civil rights
are guaranteed by the contti
tution to the people of the
dates, which are withheld from
the ciiizens of the territories.—
And, hr, the gentleman from
Virginia has yielded this ground
upon the piefent occasion, if
I have not miflaken the tenor
of his resolution. As I under
dand it he proposes to appoint
commifiioncrs to decide the
dispute between the United
j States and the petitioner, whose
! decision fhali be final and con-
I clufive. Now, I aik him and
| die committee, where is the trial
|by jury ? Suppose the pro.
perty in dispute were within
the limits ol a fl ate and had
not been cxpreffily ceded by
j the date to the general govern
ment would not a propolition
1 to determine on the claim of
any individual to such proper,
ly without a regular judicial
trial be obviously unconltituti.
onal ? Certainly, fir. And yet
until the present moment, the
right of Congress to determine
by commiflioners all land
claims in the territories never
has been questioned, It has
been the uniform course of
proceeding ever since the com.
mencement of the government.
I could enumerate many in
fiances in which rights are ex
p«efsly granted to the citizens
of the dates by the conftitution,-
which both the conftiiution Sc
the ordinance deny to citizens
G «be territories ; but it is un
ncceffary. Congress have king,
ly—ablolute powers over the
territories, and it the petitioner
could not be contented wirfc
the enjoyment of perfect liberty
in the state—is he volun atily
removed to the territory of
Orleans, it was his own act
and he cannot reasonably claim
an exemption from such reftric.
tions as are imposed on others.
The ordinance veils the right
in Congress to make any re*
gulations they may find neces
sary for iecuring the title of the
nation to its foil in terrritoiies.
The constitution declares that
congress (hallhavepowerfornake
all needful rules (3 regulations
refpefting the territory or o*
tlier public property of the
United States. Here is a grant
of power limited only by
the discretion of Congrelt
—this conllitutional authority
for the laws under which Mr.
Livingston was removed from
the Batture, h which some gen
tlemen have denounced as uoj
conllitutional, That law w a»
deemed a needful rule and re*
guiation by those to whom a.
lone the right of judging was
delegated by the constitution
—it has not been repealed, and
there is no legitimate authority
on earth that can make it un
conllitutional by any aft wbat
foever. Sj r , it is a needful rule
and regulation, because it is in
dispentible to the lecurity of the
national profpetity—without it
the public iands would be at the
mercy of every speculator in the
country. Repeal this law—di.
vett yourselves of the power to
remove intruders from the pub
lic domain, except by acourfe
of judicial proceedings, and I
venture to assert they never can
be removed. No roan does or
can believe that a jury of intru
ders 'would difpoflefs themselves.
But, lay gentlemen, this law,,
if conftituticnal, was intended
to operate only in the Mifliflippi
Territory again! the Yazoo
claimants.’ ~ An examination
of the law will shew the fallacy
of this argument. Among the
offences enumerated in the
fir ft feftion, against which the
law is, intended to piovide,
will be found that of making
“ a settlement on or taking pof.
session of, any lands ceded to
the United States by a foreign
nation or by a state, &c. &c.”
Now, fir, what ceflion had been
made to the U* States by a Jor.
eign nation when this aft was
palled ? The celfion of Lou
isiana, and unless the law is con.
fideted applicable to that ter
ritory, this provision is whol
ly nugatory and absurd. But:
if any doubt remains on this
point it will be completely re
moved by refering to a nega
gaiive provision contained in
the last feftion, 44 Provided that
nothing in this feftion shall be
construed to apply to any per
lon claiming lands in theterrito*
ry of Orleans or Louisina tuhofe
claim shall have been filed with
the proper commiisioners
1 (To be Continued)
BALTIMORE, June 4.
The ichooaer Fame, Davie, ar
rived here on Saturday last, in 10
days from La Guira. By this ves
sel we have a confirmation of the
news of Caraccus being declared
tree and independent. All the of
ficers who derived their authority
Ilrom the mother country were sent
away. The captain general and
several officers have arrived in a
brig at Norfolk. The friendship
of the United States is much cour
ted by the new government j our
citizens there are treated with
much civility and kindness. The
whole province of Caraccus is re
ported to have followed the exam
ple of its capital. Tha present go
vernment has reduced the dotiee
to 16 i-2 per cent, on imports, and
12 i-2 on exports, at also a rcdcc.