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TTTE ATT, A XT A GEORGIAN AND NEWS.
DAISY HOPKINS DENIES VISITING PENCIL FACTORY WITH DALTON
Girl Mentioned by Conley Swears That Leo Frank Never Spoke to .'ter
STREET GAR CREW TELL
MRS, LEO FRANK PHOTOGRAPHED AS
SHE LEAVES COURTHOUSE IN AUTO
Continued From Page 1.
lifted that he and Mary left the car at Forsyth and Marietta
streets and that he walked with her toward the factory as far as
the viaduct.
Hollis did not remember seeing Epps on the car. He said
Mary was alone when he collected her fare after the car got on
English avenue. He left the car at Forsyth and Marietta streets
and did not see Mary Phagan alight there.
Albert Kauffman, an architect, was called to discredit sev
eral of the States witnesses. He had blue prints of the Selig home
which he displayed to the jury to show that it was impossible for
Albert McKnight to have seen from the kitchen into the dining
room, as he testified he did, on the Saturday afternoon that Frank
came home from the factory.
His testimony was to the effect that Monteen Stover could not
have seen over the safe door into Frank’s office at the time she
declared she was unable to find him on her visit to the factory.
Shows Diagram to Aid Frank.
He said that there was room for several bodies to pass down
the scuttle hole into the basement. He exhibited a diagram of the (
factory to show that Frank could have sat in his office and not
been aware of anything taking place beyond the time clock—for
example, anyone coming up or going down the stairs.
Miss Daisy Hopkins, who C. B. Dalton said was his compan
ion on visits to the factory basement, was called by the defense
and denied Dalton's statements.
She said she never had spoken to Frank, and that Frank never
had spoken to her.
The wife of
the defendant
in the Phagan
case is always
among the first
to reach the
courtroom
in the morning.
Solicitor Dorsey made an at
tack on her character and forced
her to admit she had been in jail
on a statutory charge. It was
brought out. however, that she
was released without trial.
Frank, for the first time dur
ing the trial, took an active part
in helping direct the course his
case was taking. 11c arose from
his seat several times to make
suggestions to his lawyers, and
at his request certain questions
were put.
Before Daisy Hopkins was called
Solicitor Dorsey said he wanted to
asU Harry Scott on© more question.
Attorney Rosser said he also wanted
to ask one more question of Boots
Rogers, Detective J. M. Starnes and
George Epps. Detective Scott was
the first witness called.
Dorsey asked:
Q. Mr. Scott, how long did It take
you to Ret Jim Conley to write after
he had admitted that he could write
and you dictated It to him without
delay?—A. Two or three minutes.
Daisy Hopkins on Stand.
Miss Hopkins is a woman of very
small features, with bright, keen eyes
and wore a cotton striped dress that
looked a bit too short. She wore
white shoes and stockings. Mr. Ar
nold began the questioning:
Q. Did you ever work for the Na
tional Pencil Company?—A. Yes, 1
went to work there about October
1, 1911, and quit June 1, 1912.
Q What department?—A Packing
department.
Q. What floor?—A. Second floor.
Q. How many other girls worked
there?—A. Sometimes there were as
many as ten.
Q. Did you know Leo M. Frank?—
A. I knew him when 1 saw him. 1
saw him pare around the factorv
Q. Did he ever speak to you?—A.
No, never in my life
Denies Drinking in Frank’s Office.
Q. Did you ever go into Frank's
office and drink beer and cold drinks
with other women? \. No, I never
went into his office and I don’t drink.
Q. Do you know' C. B. Dalton?—A.
I know him when I see him.
Q. Did you ever speak to him? A.
I went to his home once to see his
sister and spok© to him. That is the
only time.
Q. Did you ever go to the pencil
factory with Dalton?—A. No, 1 never
did.
Q. Did you introduce him to Mr.
Frank?—A. No, I did not.
Q. Did you ever go into the factory
and go into the basement with Dal
ton?—A. No, I don’t even know' wher©
the basement is. I never have been
in it.
Says Sh© Was Married.
Dorsey took the witness on cross-
examination.
Q. Were you ever married?—A.
Yes
Q. Where?—A. Redair.
Q. Who did you marry?—A. E. A.
Sillp
Q. Who married you?—A. Preacher
Miles.
Q. Who is your doctor?—A. Dr.
Pound.
Q. What is he treating you for?—A
Stomach? trouble.
Q. Were you ever in jail?—A No
Q. Do you know this man here.
Gamer, my deputy?—A. No.
Q. Did he get you out of Jail?—A
No, he was along.
Q. What were you charged with?—
A. Somebody told tales on me.
Q. Who brought you down here?—
A. Mr. Burke.
“Bill" Smith Her Lawyer,
Arnold took the witness on the
redirect.
Q Who got you out of jail?—A.
My lawyer.
Q. Did you pay anything?—A. I
only paid my lawyer his fee.
Q. Who was your lawyer?—A. Mr.
Bill Smith
\V. M. Mathews, motnrmnn on the
English Avenue ear on which Mary
Phagjvn is supiwrsed to have come to
town from her home, Saturday, April
26, followed Miss Hopkins on the
stand.
Q What was your run on April 26?
—A. English avenue that runs to
Bell wood.
Q. What time did you pass Lind
say street?—A. Ten minutes to 12.
Q. Was that on schedule? - A. Yes
Q. Did a little girl named Mary
Phagan get on at Lindsay street?—A.
Yes.
Sat Behind Mary Phagan.
Q. What is the distance from Lind
say street to Broad street?—A. About
tw'o miles.
Q. What time did you get to Mari
etta and broad streets?—A. At
12:07 1-2. We were on time.
Q. Do you recollect where this lit
tle girl got off? A. At Broad and
Hunter streets.
Q. What time did you reach that
point?—A. About two and one-half
minutes later. It took that long on
account of the crowds.
Q. It took that long?—A. Yes, I
was not running the car then. I was
sitting behind Mary Phagan. There
was a little girl on the seat with h^r.
Q. Where did she get off?—At
Broad and Hunter streets.
Q. What time was it than?—A.
12:10 as near as 1 could recollect.
Q. Where did she go when she got
off?—A- She walked to the sidewa’<
with the girl that was with her
Q. Did you see this little girl get
on the ear?—A. Yes.
Q. Did a little boy get on the car
with her?—A. No.
Didn’t See Epps Boy.
Q. Do you know this little boy
Epps?- A. Yes.
Q. Did he get on the car with her?
A. No.
Q. He didn’t sit on the seat with
her?—A. No; 1 didn’t see him.
Dorsey took the witness.
Q. You said you arrived at Broad
and Hunter streets at about 12:10
o’clock. Why do you say about 12:10
if you are sure of it?—A. It was about
that time.
Q Didn't you tell Detective Whit
field, of the Pinkertons, that you
might have been three or four min
utes ahead of schedule?—A. No.
Q. You are sure you never told him
that? -A. No.
Q. llow is it that you are willing
to tell this jury that Mary Phagan
did not get off at Marietta and Broad
streets? A. Wait a minute and I will
tell you. There was an ex-conduc
tor sitting by me. He had a pin on
his coat. I took it off and leaning
over to Mary Phagan 1 said: "Little
girl, this Is your picture." She said:
"No, it ain't.” That mad© me positive
Q. Tell me how these little girls
were dressed?—A. 1 don’t remember,
or short?—A. Short cars.
Q. Was there any difficulty in
hearing what was said on the front
end when the car was standing still?
A. No.
Q. No such thing as being ahead of
time ever happens?—A. No, sir; it is
against the rules of the company.
Attorney Hooper took the witness
again.
Q. Do you mean to say that you
obey the rules of the company so
well that you are never ahc*ad of time
nor never a little late?—A. It isn’t
against the rules of the company to
be late.
Q. Then you are never early—not
even when going to the barn?—A. It
isn’t against the rules of the company
to come in ahead of time when going
to the barn, so long as you don’t run
reckless.
Q. And that day you brought Mary
Phagan in was your last trip?—A.
Yes.
Defense Turns Over Books.
Attorneys for the defense at this
juncture turned over to the prosecu
tion the cash book and the bank book
of the National Pencil Company. Hol
lis was excused and Albert Kauffman,
an engineer, who drew a plot and dia
gram of the Selig residence where
Frank resided, took the stand.
He was examined by Attorney Ar
nold.
Q. What is your business?—A. Civil
engineer.
Q. Have you made a drawing of the
Selig residence on Georgia avenue?—
A. Yes.
Q. When?—A. Last week.
Q. Did you make a plat of the
kitchen, the dining room, the recep
tion hall, the parlor and the hall?—A.
Yes.
Q. How many feet is it from the
kitchen door to the passageway?—A.
Fourteen feet.
Couldn’t See Mirror.
Q. How wide is the passageway?—
A. Two and one-half feet wide and
about two feet long.
Q. Did you stand in the kitchen door
and see if you could se** the mirror
in the dining room?—A. Yes.
was found?—A. An angle of 43 de
grees.
Q. How far would the line of vision
throw you from this partition? A.
About 3 feet.
Q. Could you see a body there?—
A. Not all of it.
Q. Is it an accurate plan of the
first floor?—A. Yes.
Q. What is the width of the front
door?—A. Six feet.
Q. What is the length of this
partition from the front door?—A.
Twenty-six feet.
Q. From the front door to the
stairway, how far iis it—A. Thirty-
six feet.
Q. From the staircase to the ele
vator shaft?—A. Thirteen feet.
Q. From the stairway to this hole?
—A. Ten and one-half feet.
Q. Is there a long hallway on the
first floor?—A. Yes.
Trap Door Near Tragic Spot.
Q. Does It extend to the west end
of the building?—A. Yes
Q. What is it used for?—A. Maybe
a storeroom.
Q. Was it closed?—A. Yes.
Q. What was in there?—A. Two
toilets.
Q. How far back?—A. About 90
feet.
Q. Is this the spot directly ovet
where the body was found?—A. Yes.
Q. What did you find on the right-
hand side, next to the toilet?—A. A
trap door.
Q. Were there steps?—A. Yes.
Q. How near to this chute was the
body found?—A. About 20 feet.
Q. When the trap is open, where
does it lead to?—A. To the base
ment.
Q. What is it used for?—A. To
send boxes down.
Q. Did you observe the door of the
safe when it stood open in the outer
office?—A. Yes.
Q. To what extent did it close off
the view to the inner office?—A. En
tirely.
Q. Could you see over that safe
No
door?—A. Yes.
Q. Could a girl?—A. I don’t think
so.
Q. To the right of the door in the
inner office, what did you find?—A.
A desk.
Q. Are there tw r o windows there?-—
A. Yes.
Q. They open on the street, don’t
they?—A. Yes.
Office 150 Veet From Dressing Room,
Q. This is Frank’s desk?—A. Y"es.
Q. A person on the other side of
the street could see the desk, couldn’t
they?—A. Yes.
Q. How far is it from Frank’s of
fice to the dressing room?—A. Om
hundred and fifty feet.
Q. What kind of a view is it from
Frank’s office to the stairway?—A.
None at all.
Q. What kind of a view of the
clock?—A. He could see about one-
quarter of the first clock.
Q. What are these open spaces
(pointing to the diagram)?—A. Pas
sage ways.
Q. How wide are the doors to the
metal room?—A. Six feet.
Q. How far from that door is it to
the ladies' room?—A. About 10 feet.
Frank Makes Suggestion.
Q. From that point how far is it
to the lathe?—A. Twenty feet.
Q. From this lathe to the point
where Conley said he found the body?
—A. Thirty-seven feet.
Q. How far from the ladies’ toilet?
—A. Nineteen feet.
Here Frank arose from his seat
and walked across to Attorney Ros
ser to make a suggestion for a ques
tion.
Q. What is the size of these vats?—
A. Six by four.
Q. Could you get a girl Into one
of these?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you find in this whole trulld-
Continued on Pag© 4, Column 1.
Funeral Designs and Flowers
FOR ALL OCCASIONS.
Atlanta Floral Company
455 EAST FAIR STREET.
except they were dressed in some
thing light.
Q. Well, tell us anything that Mary
Phagan had on?—A. I don’t know
anything except she had on a dress
and hat.
Q. Yes, she had on shoes and stock
ings, too?—A. Yes, and her dress was
light colored.
Q You didn't see George Epps?—A.
No, I didn’t see him.
Q. Would you know George Epps If
you were to see him?—A. 1 would
know him if 1 were to see him now.
Q. Tell me one thing about him by
which you can identify him?—A. I
can’t remember.
Q. What color was Mary Phagan’s
hat? A. It was light color.
Q. You say it was a light color.
Just what color was it?—A. I don’t
know.
Q. What did you say light color
for? Come, don’t
Arnold Calls Halt.
Attorney Arnold interrupted.
"Just wait a minute. That is not
til© form to question him."
"All right. I’ll put the question dif
ferently." said Dorsey.
Q. Mr. Matthews, you did not ob
serve what color her clothes were?
A. No, sir
Q. What time did you hear about
her murder?—A. Sunday morning.
Q. What time did you go down to
identify her?—A. About 6:45 in the
afternoon.
Q. You recognized her as the lit
tle girl you had carried down the. day
before?—A. Yes.
Q. How did you recognize her?—A.
Well. 1 knew her. On© day she was
late and I waited for her and she said
she was mad because she was late.
Every time after that 1 would ask
j her if she was mad.
Fails on Color of Hat.
Attorney Arnold took the witness
and showed him the dress Mary Pha
gan .wore.
Q. Was this the dress she wore
that day?—A. 1 am not sure, but it
looks like it might have been.
JSoiiciior Dorsey took the witness.
He showed the witness Mary Pha
gan’s hat.
Q. Is this the light hat you just
now told the jury Mary Phagan had
on? (The hat was of dark lavender
material.)
Q. The giri you saw had on a
light hat?—A. That's what I remem
ber.
The witness was excused, and W. T.
Hollis, conductor on the English ave
nue car on which the Phagan girl
rode to town Saturday, April 26, took
the witness stand. Arnold examined
him.
Q. What is your business?—A.
Street car conductor.
Q. Where were you on April 26?—
A. < >n the English avenue and Coop
er street line.
Q. Did you cross Lindsay street?—
A. Yes.
Conductor Saw Girl.
Q On what street?—A. Belhvood
avenue.
Q. How many miles is it from
this point to the heart of the city?—
A. I couldn’t say.
Q What time do you leave the
other end of the line?—A. On the
hour, quarter and half.
Q. What time did the car that left
at 15 minutes to 12 get to the city?—
A. It took 22 1-2 minutes.
Q. Did the little girl get on at
Lindsay street?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you know her name then?—
A. No.
Q. When did you see her again?—
A The next day at the morgue.
Q. Did this little boy. George Epps,
get on the car and ride with her?—
A No; he was not with her when
I collected the fare.
Q. Was the car crowded?—A.
There were only three passengers.
Q. What time did you get to Broad
and Marietta streets?—A. About
12:07 1-2.
Epps Boy Didn’t Get Off.
Q. Where did you get off?—A.
At Marietta «iud Forsyth streets.
Q. Did this little girl get off there?—
A. No; 1 left her on the car.
Did this little boy, Epps, get
I
off there?—A. No.
Q. How long did it take to get
from Broad and Marietta to Huntei
street—A. About 2 1-2 minutes, as a
rule.
Q. Do you recollect how she was
dressed?—A. No.
Q. You don’t know whether these
are the clothes?—A. No; I never
noticed.
Attorney Hooper took the witness
on cross-examination.
Q. There was nothing unusual
about her coming in that day, was
there?—A. No.
Q. There was no particular reason
why you should remember these
things, Is there?—A. No.
Never Ahead of Time, He Says.
Q. You don’t know whether these
are her clothes, or not, do you?—A.
No.
Q. You always notice when any
thing happens to throw you off your
schedule, don’t you?—A. Yes.
Q. But you don’t pay any atten
tion to being a few minutes ahead
of time, do you?—A. We don’t ever
come in town ahead of time.
Q. Are you ever late?—A. Yes;
sometimes.
Q. Was there anyone sitting with
Mary Phagan on the car?—A. No.
Q. You didn't see a little girl sit
ting beside her?—A. No. When I
got her fare, she was sitting alone,
as I remember.
Q. She usually came down early in
the morning—factory hours—didn't
she?—A. Yes; she usually caught the
car that gets to town at 7:07. She
said she was fifteen minutes late
when she caught that car, when she
said she was mad.
Q. Which end of the car did she
get on?—A. The front end.
Q. Which end were you on?—A.
The back end.
Q. And you say you overheard a
conversation between her and the
motorman?—A. Yes; he asked her if
she was mad. and she said yes. she
was late.
Said She Was Late.
Q. She went down early in the
morning, as a rule? Yet, w’hen she
said she was late, it was ten min
utes to 12 o'clock?—A. Yes.
Attorney Arnold took the witness
on the redirect examination.
Q. Are the cars on this line long
Q. Could you see It?-*—A. No.
part of the glass was visible.
Q. Were you present when a pho
tographer took views of the place?—
A. Yes.
Q. Standing on the south side of
that door, did you see the sideboard?
A. Not within two or three feet of it.
Q. Have you drawn a plat of Geor
gia avenue?—A. Yes.
Q. Did you draw a diagram of the
block bounded by Pulliam street?—A.
Yes.
Q. How r far is it from the Selig
home to Pulliam street?—A. 221 feet.
Q. How far to Washington street?
A. 175 feet.
Q. What does this represent? (A
diagram of the pencil factory was
displayed.)—A. That is th e pencil fac
tory.
Gives Dimensions of Factory.
Q. What is the size of the elevator
shaft?—A. Six by eight.
Q. What is the length and breadth
of this hole? (A spot where the lad
der goes down into th© basement of
the factory was indicated).—A. Two
feet by 2 feet 3 inches.
Q. What is the distance from the
elevator to the spot where the body
was found?—A. 176 feet.
Q. To the boiler?—A. 90 feet.
Q. From the elevator to this toi
let?—A. 118 feet.
Q. The distance from the elevator
to the back stairway?—A. 135 feet.
Q. The elevator to the chute? First,
the dimensions?—A. 5 feet wide, 15
feet long.
Q. Was that large enough for a
human body to go down?—A. One or
several.
Q. How far from the elevator is
it?—A. About 30 feet.
Q. How far is the back door from
the elevator?—A. 165 feet.
Q. The total length of the building?
—A. 200 feet.
Q. What are the widths of the
walls?—A. Four feet.
Q. What kind of a bunk is in that
inclosure back there by the boiler?
A. A big box.
Q. What is in it?—A. All kinds of
trash.
Q. How far is the trash pile from
the spot where the body was found?—
A. Slxty-one feet.
Q. The toilet?—A. Twenty-one
feet.
Q. From the back door?—A. For
ty-two feet.
Q. What about the line of vision
from the toilet to where the body
Runs Through Open Switch
Shepherd Device Insures safety in railway travel.
Demonstration by train at Oakland City, 3 p. m., Saturday. Take
East Point car.
Great Annual Clearance Sale
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FRIDAY AND
SATURDAY
10 lbs. Best Gran.Sugar 45c
40c Coffee .... 32c
$1.00 Bag ol Flour . . 75c
Fresh Snap Beans, •££ 2|c
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The Cash Grocer
390 Peachtree St.
Opposite Peachtree Inn
Ivy 7715
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