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■TWIAT V-F IFtffl €<X3
SECOND SESSIOX-
CHEROKEE INDIANS.
In copying from the Globe a sketch of the
debate in the Senate and House of Represen
tatives, May 22, on the message of the Presi
dent in relation to the removal of the Chero
kee Indians to the West, we are enabled to
give only the remarks of our own members,
and those of a lbw other members who took
part in the debate.
IN SEN ATE.
Mr. Lumpkin stood on ratlier different
grounds in relation to this subject from most
persons.' From time to time he had been con
ferred with, in his official Station, by the Exec
utive of the country. He had communed with
the present and late President in relation to
this affair. He had never entertained but one
opinion, and that was to execute with fidelity
the late treaty. Air. L. said he was aware
that many of the Indians were opposed to it,
and he thought them honest in their views.—
'Phe Executive was disposed to treat them with
kindness and humanity; and he was persuaded
that the most liberal feelings were indulged to
wards these unfortunate people. The Gov
ernment wished something done to soothe
them, arid allay their excited feelings. Mr.
L. would say to them firmly, but imperatively,
*'lke treaty must be executed!"
It might be due to the Secretary of War,
said Mr. L., to state, that he [Mr. L.] had
been consulted in relation to this matter, from
which consultation, he presumed, this docu
ment might have resulted. He told the Sec
retary of War that he would be as ready as
any man, and would go as far in acts of kind
ness and humanity' to this unfortunate people.
The communications he had jxi'ido to the War
Department he presumed, would be found on
file there, although they were addressed as a
private letter. If any accommodation could
be made by giving them some additional coin
'pensation, no one could be more willing to ef
tect such a measure; but it was necessary they
should be removed, and that at once. Mr. L.
alluded to the murder of the Surveyor Gener
al of his State, and shortly after, his ferryman:
all which murders he attributed to the Indians,
and said, as far as his State was concerned,
there would be no compromise. Mr. L. con
tended that the countenance these Indians had
received here had been the cause of much of
this excitement. Evil had been, and more
would still be, brought on the Cherokee people
by Ross and his immediate associates. So far
as it was sought to delay' or check the fulfil
ment of the treaty, the document would have
no more effect than the paper he held in Lis
hand. The decree had gone forth, and they
must go.
Mr. Cuthbgrt confessed that he had been
much surprised at the tenor of the communica
tion just read, and one which he had not the
slightest reason for anticipating. No infor
mation on the subject had been afforded him by ■
the Department of War, or by any portion of;
the Executive branch of the Government. It
surprised him greatly to find that there was
any idea of changing a treaty solemnly ratifi
ed, on the very eve of its fulfilment; and he
was the more surprised at the idea of consult,
mg the States interested, when the act itself
of consulting them was to change the treaty.
To-morrow was the day appointed for execu
ting it, and yet it was proposed to consult the
State of Georgia, six or Seven hundred miles
off, tor the purpose ofchanging a treaty which
was to go into effect to-morrow. Let the gen
tleman from Massachusetts ho said, be cau
tious not to give much consequence to this in
terposition of the Executive. Let him be
cautious, as well front) considerations of huma
nity towards those unfortunate wretches, as
regard for the pence of the people of Georgia,
not to give too much importance to this com
munication, for this treaty would assuredly be
carried into effect, and any obstacles thrown
in its way must produce the most fata! results.
Would the interposition at this moment excite
malignant feelings, a desire for revenge, and
bitter hostility between the two races? If so,
then let gentlemen reflect on the dangerous
consequences of such interposition. He should
be glad if gentlemen would suffer this paper to
rest for a few day s. Ho was averse to any
action on it, that would awaken hopes that ne
ver could be realized, and excite feelings
which would end in scenes of mischief and
bloodshed. Let mo, he said, prevail on gen
tiemen to pursue such a course as will allay
exitement, and avoid tho giving of false hopes
to those already too much deluded people.
Mr. Clay of Alabama, said' he concurred in
the view taken by the Senator from Georgia.
He had 100 many indications in another quar
ter lately in relation to quite another subject.
We all knew how easily excitements were
gotten up, and bow difficult'.hey were to allay.
As the chairman of tho committee on Indian
Affairs was not now in his seat, he would sug
gest that it be permitted to lie over informally,
or on the table for the present. It could then
be called up at the will of any gentleman dis
posed to do so.
Mr. Cuthbert observed that nothing could
possibly be more unfortunate, considering the
conduct of the people of Massachusetts to the
aborigines within her borders, and the course
of her representatives here, than his reference
to their consciences. The gentleman said that
the “censden.•«’* of his constituents told them
that wrong had been done to the Southern In
dians. Where were the Indian tribes which
once covered the lerri'ory of Massachusetts?
W here slumbered the consciences of tho peo
ple of Massachusetts when these tribes were
exterminated by (hem? Yes, sir, butchered’
W ere their consciences to be aroused for the
first time now, after the bones of the slaught
ered red men in their holders had crumbled
*» ’o dust, and when a cw had occurred of
winch they knew nothing, and with which they
could have nothing possibly to do? To satis
fy their consciences? Who were these men
whose consciences wq^-so tender? Were they
the men of tender consciences who would let
; loose all the horrors of abolition in the South
i ern States? Were they men who, after endea
i vqring to excite a war of extermination be-
tween the white man and the black man, would
, now proceed to let loose the red man? We
have said Mr. C. the certain and unchangea
ble feeling that any attempt to arrest the exe
cution of this treaty will lie followed by scenes
of violence and bloodshed, at the very con
, templation of which the heart sickens; and yet
these men talk about their consciences, and
their desire to protect the weak and the igno
rant, while they are seeking to produce them.
God of heaven! how are terms abused! Con
. science! merciful God! for men to talk of
conscience while their course leads to violence
and bloodshed.
Mr. Cuthbert observed that he omitted to
notice, when last up, one important fact, which
1 he would now call the attention of the Senate
; to. But for the ratification of this treaty, two
years ago, the State of Georgia would hersell
have dispossessed these Indians of the territo
: ry on which they ought not to have remained.
For two years Georgia had passively yielded
and suspended the operation of her laws, under
: the full belief that this treaty would be faith-
fully carried into effect. But just at the criti
cal moment, on the very day that it was to be
I executed, it was proposed to arrest it, and to
consult the State of Georgia too, 700 miles, af
ter she had already waited two years. He
would vote for laying this communication on
I the table, not to be taken up again.
Mr. Webster stood on peculiar ground, it
seemed, and he found i'. necessary to defend,
himself. Here was a communication from the ’
President, deemed by him important to be com- |
municated to the Senate. If there was any
thing in that document which could have drawn
forth such strange ejaculations, he thought
they might as well have been directed against
the source from which it emanated. He would
not reply to the animadversions of the Senator,
much less would he go l ack to his ancestors to
trace the wrongs which have been done to the
red man; they were sufficiently numerous, he
dared say. The mere object he had in view
when he moved to refer it, was that it should
receive the respectful attention the importance
of the subject demanded.
Mr. Cuthbert said if there had been any
fair attempt on the part of Mr. Ross to arrange
the difficulties, he had no doubt they would
long since have been arranged; but instead of
that, this man had remained here creating pre
judice and excitement, for his own selfish and
ambitous purposes. If he had gone home to
his people, while the fate of his nation was on
the balance, mid from thence have made his
appeals, there might have been less reason to
impugn his motives.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
Mr. Owens called for the reading of the ae-
• companying documents which being done.
Mr. Bell moved the reference of the whole
i to a Committee on the Union, and that they.
be printed.
i On motion of Mr. Cambrelcng, the House 1
passed to tho orders of the day.
After some conversation between Mr. Eve
i rett ai d Mr. Cambreleng, the latter of whom
stating that the above papers involved a new
question.
Mr. Glascock moved a vote of reconside ra-
■ tion, so ns to refer them to the committee on In
dian Affairs, and gave his reasons therefor.
Mr. Haynes was in favor of the latter refer-1
cuce.
Mr. Everet advocated a reference to the
Committee of Ways and Means.
Mr. Howard preferred the original refer- '
dice to the Committee on the Union, inasmuch
as the subject was already before that body,on ;
the amendments to the bill to prevent and sup
press Indian hostilities.
Mr. Holscy advocated tho reference to the
Indian Committee, fur he could not consent to
embarrass the above bill by bringing on p
I protracted discussion upon tho validity of the
i Cherokee treaty. Mr. H. apprehended hog.
I tilities, and alluded to a murder that had al
- ready taken place. ' I
Mr. Reed insisted that the reference already )
I made was the proper one, and he moved to lay ;
the motion to reconsider on the table.
Mr. Owens expressed a hope that the gen-j
tieman would not press that motion.
Mr. Hulsey asked for the yeas and nays,but i
‘ they were not ordered, and the motion was in
jected-—ayes 65, nocs 68.
Mr. Bell knew nothing to be gain’d by the
reference of the subject to the Committee on i
Indian Affairs, for there was not the slightest
ground to believe that that committee would
i bring in any proposition. They would do no.
thing, but sny “hands off'.’’ He was sorry the
' murder had been alluded to, for there were no
* facts to show that it evinced a determination
on the part of the Indians to commence hosjil-
; kies. As lo voting money,Mr.B. was willing to
vote nil that was now and would be necessary,
even to-day if it was thought expedient; but it
would be useless to refer it to the Committee
on Indian Affairs, as th’- Committee of the
Whole on the state of the Union must eventu
ally act upon it.
Mr. Cambreleng advertedthe importance
of the I’resident’scoinmunicaticn, which con
tained several distinct propositions, all of which
camo within the province of the standing Com
mittee on Indian Affairs to inquire into, and
gave other reasons for giving the subject that
direction.
Mr. Cushing expressed himself willing to
yield the floor on the Northwest bo mJ ;ry
quest'on to go on with the Indian Lo:;i ! ;ty:
bi! 1 *
The motion to reconsider was then agreed to
—ayes 73, nays 69.
The question® then ogait'i recurring on
the conmitment to the Committee of the
Whole on the state of the Union, it was de
cided in the negative, by tellers —ayes 72,
noes 84.
On sending it to the Committee on Indian
Affairs,
Mr. Everett moved to add the following in
structions:
‘And that said committee have power to
send for persons and papers.”
Mr. Dawson assured all parties that if they
expected to make any thing politically out of
this'question they were very much mistaken.
Where could be the necessity, or what good
could result out of sending for peisons and pa
pers to investigate the validity of a treaty long
since ratified and confirmed? What! were
they to suffer John Ross to arrest and change
the whole action of this Government? Mr.D.
had labored day and night to bring this man
to a reasonable proposition, but he had no soo
ner succeeded than in an hour afterwards he
withdrew or changed his opinion.
Mr. D. said the only proper course for the
House to pursue was to disobey and disregard
the President’s recommendations, which were
in effect to declare war against the people of
Georgia. He, therefore, moved to lay the
whole subject on the table, but withdrew that
motion at the request of
Mr. Wise, who hoped this communication
would be considered, and said he would pay
the first compliment to the President he had
ever paid in his life, for his propositions were
a virtual acknowledgement that the pretended
treaty was no treaty, as Mr. W. had often be
fore alleged. He rejoiced that the Executive
ot the United States had at lust signified a wish
to do justice to the Cherokees. Mr. W. pur
suant to his pledge to Mr. .Dawson, renewed
that gentleman’s motion to lay the whole sub
ject on the table, but withdrew it by his assent.
Mr. Glascock addressed the House with ear
nestness, insisting on the obligation of the trea
ty of 1835, and the sacredness of the Vested
rights Os Georgia under it; the certainty that
her citizens would take possession of these
lands, and tho imminent danger of an Indian
war, Should tho Government attempt to over
turn the treaty, Georgia would never bo found
wanting io herself, as she had once before pro.
ved. And ho would say to the gentleman
from Virginia, [Air. Wise] that his bold threats
about castigating his State into submission, had
no terrors for him or the people he in part re
presented. This was not the first limo that
such threats hud boon made against Georgia,
growing out of tho Indian treaties; but she al
ways took her stand, and assumed her position
under them, and was not to bo forced from it.
She ever remained firm, as she will now, a
midst all the calumnies and foul slanders which
have been eagerly circulated to her injury,
and unawed by every attempt of those who,
under the sacred garb of humanity, seek to
array against her public feeling find indigna
tion.
Sir, said Mr. G., she plants herself upon
those rights secured and guarantied Io her un
der the treaty of 1835—a treaty solemnly rat.
ificd, and having all the sanctions and requis
ites required by the Constitution and now the
supreme law of the land; and such rights, thus
secured, gentlemen of all parties might rest as
sured Georgia at least would peri! her all to
maintain and defend. Independent of this, said
Mr. G., u large portion of his constituents had
rights vested in them under this treaty, and by
special enactments of their own Legislature—
rights to the possession and occnpancy of their
lands, and they, too, stand ready to resist, “e
--ven unto death,” all encroachments upon them,
coming from what quarter they may. And
he could assure the gentleman from Virginia,
that ifsuch contests should ever be made nec
essary, however unequal and unpleasant, they
would never falter. They had the firmness
and courage on the one hand, to maintain their
own rights under the treaty; and, on the oth
er, the magnanimity to protect and defend the
Indians in theirs. Sir, they stand upon the
treaty; and all they ask at the hands of tho
Government is a speedy enforcement of its
provisions. They now ask it through their
representatives, and they have a right to ex
pect it.
[We hope to furnish Mr. G’s remarks at
length in a few days, as well as those of other
gentlemen.— Globe.]
Mr. Athernon then rose and demanded the
previous question, as it was apparent that a
protracted discussion was growing out ol this
preliminary motion of reference.
Mr. Owens hoped the gentleman would
withdraw that motion, and permit the question
to betaken on laying the subject on tho table.
After some conversation between the Chair
and Messrs. Wise and McKay, as to tho read
ing of the papers again,
Mr. Owens moved to lay the subject on the
tabic, and'called fur the yeas and nays, which
being ordered, were yeas 39 nays 113, —so the
motion to lay on the table was decided in the
negative.
The question recurring on the demand for
the previous question,
Mr. Montgomery said he hoped this subject
would be settled, temporarily at least, without
further excitement; and he appealed to his
friend from New Hampshire to withdraw his
motion for the prev oti* question, to enable Mr.
M. to move its pas: - T-ment for one week.
Mr. All lernon not ...> • nting to the request,
the House passed between the tellers, and sec
onded the previous question —78 to 53; so the
main question was ordered, put, and greed to.
So the subject was referred to the commit
tee on Indian Affairs.
A person being asked what was meant by
real ties of life,” answered real rstofe, real
nren-y, an I a real good dinner.
WESTERN GEORGIAN
Rome, .Intie I*2, 183$.
The following named gentlemen will act as
Agents for the Western Georgian:
Howell Cobb, Esq., of Athens, Georgia.
E. M. Johnson, Esq., ®f Gainesville, <Jo.
S. Ripley, Esq., of Jefferson, do.
X. Erwin, Esq., of Cumming, do.
John S. Bel), Esq., of Spring Place, do.
R. As. Aycock, Esq., of La Fayette, do.
Turman Waithail, Esq., of Cedar Town,
Paulding County, do.
Leroy Pattillo, P. M. Monroe, du.
Charles Murphey, of Decatur, do.
Dr. Hugh Quin, Chattooga, Floyd coun
ty, Georgia.
John Woods, Esq. Woods Station, Walker
Coun’y, Georgia.
Union Congressional Ticket.
ROBERT W. POOLER, of Chatham.
Gen.B. GRAVES, of Newton.
Col. J. S. PATTERSON, of Early.
D. C. CAMPBELL, Esq. of Bibb.
JUNIUS HILLYER, Esq. of Clark.
Hon. HIRAM WARNER, of Meriwether.
Hon. ALFRED IVERSON, of Muscogee.
Dr. J. G. McWHORTER, of Richmond.
Gen. CHARLES 11. NELSON, of Cherokee.
The Cherokees.
Tho troops placed in this country, for the
collection of tho Cherokees, are doing well; al
ready have they collected nearly the entire na
tion, especially in Georgia. From what We
can learn, we do not suppose that there are
five hundred Indians al this time in Georgia,
out of the contrcul of the troops; so far as this
country is concerned, we are satisfied that there
are not ten Cherokees in it, running at large;
so far as information has reached us, and so
far as our knowledge extends, all has been
quiet, peace and harmony. Some of tho In
dians appear to some extent, discomfited, but
iho great mass appear cheerful and satisfied.
We most gladly congratulate the citizens of
this country, v. ith tho blight prospect of a spee
dy relief from the heavy clogs and trammels
which they have borne with patience for the
Last six years. We now see the day in full
view, when the entire Cherokee Nation East,
will strike its line of march to lhe setting sun,
far beyond tho great Mississippi. Wo give
them a hearty shake by the hand, in tho spirit
of peace and friendship; bid them a pleasant
journey; a welcome and joyous reception by
their brethren west; a happy home, and a qui
et wigwam, so long as “witter runs, dr grass
grows.” The agents appointed for this coun
ty by the Superintendent of Cherokee emigra
tion, to sell end dispose of tho Indian’s proper
ty, have nearly completed the duth s assigned
them, and will soon be enabled to make their
report to the superintendant. We learn that
the property has generally sold at a fair price.
While every thing connected with Cherokee
emigration, is in the happy tide of prosperity,
we regret, very much, io say the least of it, to
see the very imprudent and improper course of
the Executive of the United States, towards
John Ross, and his delegation. The time ne
ver was when such a course would bo proper,
’ but of all other times, this is tho most innuspi.
Icious; his policy to Ross may be fraught with
consequences, both to the white and red man,
which the Executive may hereafter have much
causo to regret. We know there is no pros
pect of tho suecessof any such policy, yet it is
unpleasant lo witness it. Georgians havo too
much at stake in securing tho quiet of their
newly acquired territory, to listen to Execu
tive councils, or the “proposed arrangements,”
by the Secretary of War with Ross and his
delegation, or yield to Indian exactions. But
wo have done for the present, and refer our
readers to our first page, for further informa
tion in regard to this “proposed arrangement”
■ between the Secretary of War and the Russ
delegation.
Tho following official letter has been trans
mitted by Mr. Poinsett, to the Governors of
each State, interested in the removal of the
Indians:
Department of War, /
Muy 23, 1838. J
Sir —l have the honor to transmit herewith
to your Excellency, a copy of a proposed ar-
| rangement, with John Ross and other Chiefs,,
and head men of the Cherokee nation, now in
this city. Your Excellency wi.l perceive in
these proposals, that the government, while it
seeks to procure the co-operation of the dele
gation in the peaceable removal of the Chero
kees, has carefully abstained from compromit
ing the rights and interests of tho States con
cerned in the execution of the treaty. It is
not supposed that it will require so long as two
years, to remove the remaining Cherokees to
their new homes west of the Mississippi; but,
whatever term of time may be necessary to
their comfortable emigration, the .Department
relies upon the generosity of the Stales inter
ested, not to press their claims so long as they
are sat.sfied that due diligence is used by tLo
agents of the nation to effect this desirable ob
ject, as speedily as practicable.
Very respectfully,
Your most ob’t servant,
J. R. POINSETT.
To the Governors of Georgia, Tennessee,
Alabama and North Carolina.
For the Western Georgian.
Mr. Jack:
It is with no less regret than astonishment,
that the people of the Cherokee Country' have
read the late answer of tho Secretary at War,
to the propositions of Mr. John Ross and his self
created co-delegates at Washington. Has not
the language of tho Federal Government to
th s man Ross and his associates, on tho sub
ject of a new treaty—an alteration, modifica
toin or enlargement of the treaty at New Echo
’ ta—hitherto been prompt and decisive in rejec
ting all his propositions on this subject, and e
ven notifying him, that as tho treaty of New
Echota had become tho Supremo law of tho
land, by the ratification by the Senate, all cor.
respoiidence and propositions for its alteration
were interdicted by the President? Yet after
ail this, what do we see? To our mortifica
tion—to the disgrace of the Government—and
to the hazard of the most sacred interest, peace
and quiet of this country, we see all these sol
emn annunciations suddenly taken back! We
know not the motives which havo prompted
the President to this course. Be them, how
ever, what they may, wo are wholy unable to
appreciate them for good; however they may
be garbled under the colouring of a false and
morbid humanity, towards the whites or Indi
ans, to our minds they exhibit a weakness and
timidity, wholy incompatible with- what should
be the character of the high funetionary from
: which they have emanated, not to mention, the
I crying injustice which uoild le inflicted on
i tho rights of the persons and property of the
people of this country, were their Objects con
summated. In this communicatron we aro
told, what? That Mr. Ross and bis party, on
behalf of the Cherokeo nation, “engages and
stipulates lo remove from ail the lands now oc
cupied by them east of the Mississippi, and
hereby ronourrees and relinquishes to the Uni
ted States all claim of every descriplion to
such lands: such removal to be commenced nt
tho earliest convenient period, and to be fu.ly
completed within two years from (his date; u>
be effected by the Cherokees themselves, and'
by their agents; and the entire expense of re
moval to bo defrayed out of the money to bo
paid by the United States, as herein after pro
vided.” To which the Secretary replies:—
“As has been before observed, the Govern
ment of the United States could not agree to
this act without the consent of the States whoso
rights arc involved, and whose interests may
be affected by this stipulation; but the Execu
tive pledges itself to use its best efforts to in
duce them to abstain from pressing their claims
in a manner that would produce loss or incon
venience to the Choiokee people, and would 1 be
inconsistent with their being removed with ev
ery reasonable comfort. From the well known
humanity and generous character of the States
of Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama and North
Carolina, there ran be no doubt of their gran
ting every indulgence, which the interests of
humanity require; and if two years are neces
sary for the comfortable removal of the nation,
the undersigned toill venture to assure lhe dele
gation that their - 'quest will be granted." Now
• who is there that can see any good in all this?
After the Government has already been at tho
trouble and expense of ordering some ten thou
sand troops into this country for the purpose
of carrying the Treaty into execution prompt
ly, as it had previously pledged itself to do,
both to lhe Indian? and the States’ interest,
and as was its unquestioned duty. We will
here remark, that the amount of expense in
curred, and the number of troops ordered into
this country for this purpose, is no doubt, ten
fold the amount absolutely necessary; but we
will not ut this time, cornplain of this, only as
an item of unnecessary prodigality on the part
of the Government, should not the operations
of these troops hereafter be .attempted to be
used io awe us into n relinquishmeut of our
rights. At the very time this famous “conces
sion,” —for such the Secretary calls it—makes
it appearance, the treaty is substantially exe
cuted so far as Georgia is concerned—the In
dians in Georgia having nearly all been col
lected, without violence or bloodshed, by tho
prudent and energetic measures of the Geor
gia mililia. Who authorised tho “Executive
to pledge itself” to John Ross “to use its best
efforts to induce” the States interested “to ab
stain from pressing their claims in a manner
that would produce loss”or even l ‘inconveni~
ence to the Cherokee people?” when that very
same Executive knows, or ought to know, that
an omission to press that claim might be worse
at this crisis, than a total abandonment of it;
Even the best that could possibly result to tha
people of this country ficm such a course,
would be to turn them out cf house, home and
land, with their families, and yield their farmr
■ and improvements to the Indians for two years,
unless tho Indians cc ; i remove